I’m all for it.
No. Stop.
This is the definition of interrupting your enemy when they’re making a mistake.
Let them kill windows 10, I have atleast 5 friends ready to switch to linux when Windows 10 hits EOL.
I have Linux on all my machines except one crappy old laptop that had Windows 10. When they EOL Win10, I’ll have to buy another one like that for those rare occasions when you need to run something that just won’t work in Linux.
Yeah but i still need something windows to stick in my vm.
you’re a toxic optimist beyond saving if you think any of this
I’m no fool. I know Linux isn’t going to hit 100% desktop marketshare the instant windows 10 goes EOL.
But I do know many people who are willing to make the switch rather than to go to Windows 11.
Windows has been bleeding desktop marketshare for years. They are at a far cry from their 80% of the early 2000s.
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Based on my conversations with my clients, it seems like the 2025 date is going to result in the greatest Linuxing of all time.
as an avid multi-decades linux desktop user who has worked at a company with people in it before, i believe there is no way in fuck that this is true.
Yeah, I work in industrial automation and I don’t see how it could be possible
I know right? I don’t even let Rockwell run in anything but a VM by itself after it wiped my C drive. Happened to some other people at last job too. I could explain it better, but it would be exhausting and stressful to go on another rant about their awful software.
I would love for Siemens and Rockwell software to work in Mac and Linux. Or half of the other random utilities for various hardware components. I just don’t see it happening. At least Ignition is agnostic.
Before my current job I was in a small business with no IT (I did all of the IT work, actually. Kinda poorly) and I could manage my laptop however I wanted, so I ran Linux with VMs for industrial IDEs, I mean you have to use VMs anyway, right? It fucking rocked. I don’t know if it was the laptop (XPS 15), or virtualbox, or Linux, but it was way snappier than my current setup (windows Zbook with VMware).
You’re right in that this isn’t true of your typical working folks who use Microsoft 365, Sharepoint, or specialized design software.
There are a lot of folks who just use their computer for a web browser. When you tell them that their hardware, some of which is as young as 2017, will lock them out of security updates in two years, they’re pretty receptive to alternatives like ChromeOS or Linux.
For some of the older population, the simplicity of such options is a huge perk.
most people are not “installing an operating system”
The year of the Linux desktop is upon us. The prophecy has been foretold by the sages of the code. A new dawn is on the horizon. A new era of freedom an power approaches as more and more disks are cleansed by the mighty forces set free by Stallmann and Torvalds. No more shall the users be enslaved by proprietary software and restrictive licenses.
The Year of the Linux Desktop is upon us, and nothing can stop it.
Everyone knows Microsoft OSs are tick-tock anyway. The failed 11 will be superseded by a well received 12, and the cycle will continue. Can’t kill 10 until 12 is fully accepted. Like 10 and 7 before it.
I find this funny as I remember the first 5 years of Windows 10 be like everyone hates it because it’s not Windows 7
Well it was replacing the tile-silliness of Windows 8, any OS that booted would receive some goodwill in comparison
I wouldn’t count on that, if the rumor mill of windows 12 being a subscription model ends up true, it will be recieved far worse than 11 did.
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I thought it was a little far-fetched as well, but there was a post I believe it was here a few weeks back of people that were running the windows 12 beta snooping around the code and seeing references to subscription classification and typing
This is a PC mag article that refers to it. it doesn’t go in as depth as the other post did
Hold the fucking goddamn phone… We don’t even have 11 in full swing and they’re making 12!? What the actual fuck Microsoft?
I think Microsoft has gotten so used to the swing back and forth that they just assume 12 is going to be a banger. I can think of no worse setup for a train wreck of a release than 12 being the first Microsoft built major OS to break this mold since XP and end up being the 2nd OS in a row that bombed and drove away market share.
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Subscription to remove the ads! lol
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There’s been articles saying that’s disproven and it’s so far out I don’t get why people are even talking about it at all yet really.
Editing to add the following link:
This was never a thing. Someone took a blurb said by someone on a call, and ran with it. No one fact checked, no one looked at context. At least not until after the articles were out.
The subscription stuff has always been on the enterprise side. Hell, it’s available right now and you don’t see it on the consumer side.
In fact, 11 doesn’t even require activation. You can just install it, never activate, and continue to use it perpetually. How would the next step in their movement away from requiring consumer purchase be to charge monthly for access? Makes no damn sense right out the gate.
I feel like I will have to revisit this comment in a few years with ‘aged like fine milk’… Hope I am wrong.
failed 11
By what metric (other than clickbaity tech publication headlines)?
Every Windows release, even including “the good ones”, my repair shop has been inundated with requests to go back or post-upgrade troubleshooting work.
We’ve had none of that since 11’s release. The only botched upgrades were due to underlying hardware conditions and everyone else has been neutral at worst.
Have any of the other relases had a hardware requirement that even 3 year old PCs don’t meet? I just built my PC in 2020 and win11 is telling me I can’t upgrade because of my basically new hardware…
My bet is on many many people simply can’t upgrade.
Just about anything from 2018 or newer meets the hardware requirements, but at time of release (October 2021) that was just over 3 years. Ryzen 2000 and Intel 8000 are the initial entry level.l that meet the requirements.
Unless you used 2+ year old parts for you build, you just need to go into UEFI/BIOS and enable the firmware TPM (fTPM) or perform the BIOS update that switches that to being on by default.
I’d recommend the latter since you are likely to also gain stability and/or security improvements going that route.
Thanks for the info! I have a 9900k so that should be fine. It’s on a designairz390 mobo so maybe that was the issue? I’ll have to look into those bios settings
before 10, on 8.1 everyone was the same with 10, that it will be the next Vista, by the same logic that XP was OK, Vista was NOK, 7 was OK, 8 was shit, 8.1 was OK…
don’t forget, for several years, 10 was unuseable and lots of people - including me was not willing to use it.
for a few years, 11 will be the devil but soonly enough the migration will happen - it has to, if someone needs Windows…
10 became usable when they walked back most feature changes and made it closer to 7. I had completed blocked out the awful start menu at 10 launch.
the start menu on Windows 10 is still unusable to me, so I end up just searching. sometimes it doesn’t even find a match when I type the exact name of the app I’m trying to launch. it’s computer software that can’t search text. I think it’s really good though and I hope that Microsoft makes a lot of money forcing people to buy new computers with Windows licenses attached to them. isn’t Jesus wonderful? God works in mysterious ways. I believe he has a plan for all of us. I’m taking a shit
The start menu is actually pretty good if you spend some time customizing it with your apps and programs. Having organized folders and groups is a “game changer” (ok not really, it’s neat though) for me.
I also recommend adding all the programs to the start menu scrolling thingy. There is a folder somewhere on C: that you can put shortcuts into and they appear in the scrolling menu. Don’t ever rely on the search to launch programs that aren’t in that menu or setup comprehensive indexing yourself.
Or just use “everything” to search for everything. Everything is extremely fast and indexes everything (hence it’s name) very quickly, and you can search with wildcards or boolean operators or my favorite regex.
I have absolutely no desire to do any such thing
Then don’t ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I do it because it makes my life easier (especially with “Everything”) and it doesn’t take long to do. But you do you.
okay thank you that’s very cool and good
I actually like 11 compared to 10 (so far as I like Windows in the first place - I only use it on my work-provided computer, Linux everywhere else). People rightly complain about the advertising and tracking for why they won’t upgrade but doesn’t 10 have that too?
I still have windows 10 on my work computer which is the only windows device I have, and it is riddled with advertisements, especially the start menu
Man, I’m just going to say it… I’m sick of all the Linux people saying it’s the solution to all problems in computing. Can we not talk about anything else here on Lemmy? This article is about Windows.
I mean, this is platform which runs on Linux and embodies the same spirit which drives Linux forward - the collaborative power of opensource software. Is shouldn’t come as a surprise that there’s a heavy skew of Linux and opensource enthusiasts here. If you’re sick of all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a propriety forum, perhaps one with a red alien logo.
This article is about Windows.
The article is about Window 10 becoming EOL, and given how many people are put off by Windows 11, suggesting Linux as an alternative is a reasonable comment, IMO. Feel free to argue otherwise if you feel so strong against it.
100%. I’m very happy for the people in the Linux community who have collectively supported a free and open source operating system that is effectively as good or better than the two leading OSs with massive billion dollar corporations behind them. That’s unfathomably impressive, deserving of all this praise and, of course, should have wider adoption.
However
I’ve spent my entire life on Windows, my professional career on Mac OS, and the last dozen or so years with my phones running Android. I absolutely do not have the patience and free time to become fluent in another fucking operating system. And I’ve tried. On at least two occasions, I’ve attempted to run a media server on Linux. The experience was utterly fucking miserable and made me want to give up on technology and live in the woods. I have no doubt that I’d have a different outcome with better resources or more time to learn properly, but I’m done. Hopefully the successes of Linux drive change for the better in the other two. Linux doesn’t need 100% adoption to make an impact on the way Microsoft and Apple develop their own systems.
You do know that Android is Linux right?
There is a lot to unpack, but you know exactly what they meant. The operating system people refer to as Linux or GNU/Linux or whatever is not the same thing as Android; if, under the hood, it has an older version of the Linux kernel. There is no command line required on an android phone for one.
Although, you are technically correct. The best kind.
There is no command line required on an android phone for one.
Generally not required on modern desktop distros either, unless you want to tinker or have poorly supported hardware. Package management, including kernel updates, binary drivers, etc. can all be done in the GUI.
Then again, I spend most of my time in the terminal because I like it.
Then again, I spend most of my time in the terminal because I like it.
Same. And I spend more time setting things up then using them.
I’m sorry, absolutely off-topic question, but is your username ‘microwave’?
Yes, it is. I used some derivation of microwave a long time ago on some forum or another, but it’s a common word so I threw it in Google Translate and started using this one other places.
Photoshop alone is worth keeping a windows or OSX device around.
You just need to realize that Adobe doesn’t release their stuff on Linux, not because it doesn’t allow them to, but Linux desktop market share is too small.
It’s a chicken and egg problem. Once Adobe would release their stuff, magically there would be a massive movement to improve HDR support, color accuracy etc.
And you need to realize Microsoft achieved such a giant market share thanks to illegal monopolistic practices in 90s, that still have huge impacts today.
That doesn’t change the reality that I will go where Photoshop is available.
That’s an Adobe problem
If the audience moves to Linux then it will follow
That, and Gimp is quite a capable photo editing tool.
And there’s Krita.
Gimp is not that good, and not even close to being a Photoshop replacement.
It’s not a perfect replacement, and I never claimed as such. But for most people’s needs, gimp is perfectly capable.
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😂😂😂
I don’t care who or where the problem or source is. I will buy the platform where Photoshop is used, and as a result it will likely inform every other decision about my daily driver. It’s really that simple.
Then why would Adobe ever move?
Why do they need to? To capture 3% of a market that hates proprietary anyway? Come on.
My point was that people saying “I’ll move when X moves” should just suck it up because X will move after they do
Just an FYI, Photoshop runs reasonably well under Wine now, if you follow this guide: https://github.com/LinSoftWin/Photoshop-CC2022-Linux
Well, someone could develop a new OS or a mainstream-friendly fork of Plan 9. The problem is literally over-reliance on privately-owned, proprietary software during an era where enshitification is the norm. GNU/Linux is the most mainstream-friendly OS that is not* proprietary.
*Some bits that are regularly used are obviously proprietary. See: RHEL
So brave
I’m strong on the Linux side and just swapped over my last PC from Windows. Long time it’s been needing it.
But I completely agree with you. 95% of consumers would most likely have difficulty just getting it installed. Basic usage, maybe a greater number could be fine using it but once something goes wrong, no one wants to use the terminal.
And this is also a Windows thread.
Sorry but the answer is Linux. It’s got great support for devices and is open source. If adobe and a few other companies would port their software for Linux there’d honestly be no reason to use Windows or Mac except for a few that prefer it.
If bsd was more popular than the answer would be that. We just need to have an open source OS as the norm
Mac is BSD
mac is bsd in the same way android is linux. while technically true, they both diverged a lot from their base and most functions are now provided by closed-source software…
Thanks for reaffirming what I said I guess
The boner people have on this platform for Linux is frightening. We get it. You use an obscure OS. Congrats.
I use it and I still hate how 90% of this website devolves into Linux discussions.
As someone once told , windows 10 would be that last version of windows.(I like to keep it that way , at least for me😅).
That someone was Microsoft 😆.
Don’t really care. Once this PC can’t run Windows 10 anymore, it’s getting Mint.
I’ve recently come to realize all of the games I actually like to play, run just fine on Linux. YMMV, of course.
My next computer will be Mint and open source programs.
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I know you said don’t even start, but I’m curious lol.
I’ve used blender a lot, I’ve never used 3DS Max though. What would you say are the biggest issues with Blender in your scenario?
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TIL - Thank you for the insight!
Yeah I do archviz and bim work and I’ve tried my hardest for years now to switch primarily to blender but even with all the plugins in the world I still can’t use it as a primary replacement. And don’t even get me started on some people’s insistence that FOSSCADs are anywhere near feature parity for any in depth workflow with autodesk’s suite.
I don’t use Windows/Mac over Linux because I love them, I use them because a computer is a toolkit and I need specific tools.
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Given the amount of progress on getting 3D games to work well under wine/proton lately, I wonder if it’s possible/practical to run 3ds Max under it yet? The only test results I can find for it are ancient.
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I remember Microsoft saying that Windows 10 would be the last version they would ever release and everything moving forward would just be iteration and improvement. Knew that was a lie immediately.
Microsoft never said that. Its a myth that refuses to die. A single developer on a conference mentioned something as a sidenote, the press misinterpreted it and the internet took it and ran with it.
Do you have a source for that? I’d love to read how that myth came about, I’m serious I’m not doubting you
It goes back to Jerry Nixon, a Microsoft developer that said 2015 on the Microsoft Ignite conference in Chicago
“Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.”
and talking about “Windows as a service” in the future. That started this rumour. And the press went like “MICROSOFT DECLARED!..”. Just that it never did.
What Microsoft later said was
“Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” … “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
There was never a single word explicit saying that Windows 10 will be the last. Only that the future may be “as a Service”.
Its hard to link a single source for all that, but e.g. Forbes covered it back then: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/08/microsoft-windows-10-last-windows/
Wow yeah I can clearly see how it happened now, their wording wasn’t the best and then news outlets did what they do best and now we’re here, thank you this was really nice to read and learn!! Have a great evening!
Windows 11 is just Windows 10 23H2. It’s just a number. Nothing stops MS from dropping support for older processor in an update for Windows 10.
My system significantly exceeds all the performance requirements for Win11, but it doesn’t have the Trusted Platform Module 2.0…and therefore cannot run Windows 11. It’s disappointing that my system can run circles around a lot of newer devices but can’t upgrade because it’s running on an older motherboard. It’s dumb that Microsoft made TPM 2.0 a deal-breaking requirement for Win11.
Apparently you can get around that with a registry hack that tells the installer the machine has it. Not that I’d want windows 11 anyway…
IIRC if you use Rufus to make your installer USB it has a preset for Win11 with no TPM. Again, not that you’d want to go out of your way to install it but doing it that way is pretty seamless.
Thanks! I wish I had this info for an old build.
Sidebar: Kind of silly how you and others are tripping over yourselves to include something against win11 while providing tech support. As if you’d be a pariah if you didn’t include some disdain.
“Here’s some win11 troubleshooting advice, not that I’d ever be caught using it! ;)”
Well I’m a sysadmin; it’s in my nature to answer rogue tech questions :p.
I actually daily Win11 on my personal laptop. It’s… fine, realistically. I really only say you wouldn’t go out of your way to install it because if you have a machine that’s working well under Win10, I don’t see a compelling reason to upgrade.
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Their pals in the hardware industry say thanks for the ewaste.
I’m curious what CPU you have that is on the supported list but doesn’t support TPM 2.0 in firmware. Or are you just assuming the CPU support list is decided by TPM 2.0 availability?
Because most of the CPU support list is actually about hardware-accelerated virtualization features like MBEC/GMET and the performance penalties of having to emulate them when not present – up to 40% performance loss using kernel virtualization without MBEC/GMET in particular.
assuming the CPU support list is decided by TPM 2.0 availability
This was me before I checked the compatibility app. Windows never bothered me with Windows11 update so I thought It didn’t have TPM2.0+. I got curious and used the compatibility checker.
The laptop had TPM 2.1, but CPU is not compatible. oh well…
Probably for the best – using it without those hardware features is rough. I was using a Ryzen 1600AF – which is odd because it’s not on the list although it installs normally with no issue because it’s really an underclocked Ryzen 2600 Zen+ chip. The Zen+ chips are on the support list but they lack some of the virtualization features in hardware. I was seeing a massive difference in performance when I toggled the security settings that used them. Sometimes 15-20% difference in games.
Laptop. He has a laptop. But, even if he had a TPM on a higher end Intel 6th and 7th gen Core i7, Win11 still wouldn’t install without workaround.
6th and 7th gen have firmware based TPM that Intel calls PTT. (Though whether it’s available to configure in the BIOS depends on the manufacturer and sometimes the chipset.) But correct, it still needs a workaround because TPM isn’t really the (only) thing it’s checking for.
You can just disable that requirement with Rufus
We had petitions for everything, Windows Phone, you name it a decade ago. That won’t do jack shit unless it somehow comes with some large sum of money (how much? who knows) for Microsoft or some bean counter decides “hmm, maybe the environment shouldn’t take another for the team” and gets the company to change course before they are canned.
In the meantime, let’s continue to plot our off-ramps.
Never mind the millions of PCs that don’t want to downgrade to this garbage.
A nonprofit group has sent a petition to Microsoft, urging it to extend the end-of-support date for Windows 10 beyond 2025 to prevent “the junking” of millions of PCs.
“junking”. Install linux on it you mugs!
Yup, putting this date on my calendar as the last time I’ll own a Windows machine.
I’ve been using Windows 11 for a while now and honestly I don’t understand the hate. Who needs personalized functionality? Who needs to be able to move their bar from screen to screen? I do. I’m moving to Linux.
I’m not buying another windows OS.
It’s a free upgrade
Nah, I’m sticking with Win10. I wish I could’ve stayed with Win7. I have a huge backlog of games that will play great on Win10. Enough to last me for years (thanks steam sales.) And to be honest, I didn’t pay anything for my current Win os. I’m just tired of Microsoft drastically changing the os when they shouldn’t.
It’s perfectly fine to stay, just saying you don’t have to buy it haha. I bypassed the CPU restrictions to upgrade to win 11 because it had updates that I genuinely wanted, like tabs in file explorer etc. It’s genuinely fine, as long as you move that damn taskbar to the left
Absolutely! I got the free upgrades to win 10 from 7 and all my win 7 were… cough free.
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I use Ubuntu for pretty much everything, but I would prefer to use 10 in the unfortunate event that I have to boot into Windows.
Not supporting intel 7th gen and back seemed pretty strong handed, even now they’re still decent processors.
And I know there are work-arounds but not for the average consumer
