Don’t really care about the competition. I care about having cheap access to EVs. If the competition can’t compete, then fuck em. That’s not my problem.
Don’t really care about the competition. I care about having cheap access to [X]. If the competition can’t compete, then fuck em. That’s not my problem.
This comment is the American consumer for the last 50 years, next step is complaining about outsourcing jobs and lower quality products with no competition.
So your solution is change the whole system so you can buy a dumped Chinese car without any guilt?
Whilst I agree the system is broken, buying dumped goods only makes the situation worse as it means those players and playing on an uneven playing field
buying dumped goods only makes the situation worse as it means those players and playing on an uneven playing field
So let me get this straight, instead of buying a $20k Chinese EV to meet a necessity of modern life, you should pay $60k for a worse car where all the money goes to shareholders and dealership markups so you can be on an even playing field?
We’re not talking about buying the cheap throw away Chinese product instead of the built for life one, we’re not talking about consumerism at all. We’re talking about taking a 5+ year loan for something society forces you to own in most cities around the world, and making Elon rich isn’t a better alternative than having $40k in your savings account.
Not sure what market your in but in Europe the price gap is not that huge, 30% max far as I can tell. Obviously that’s still quite a bit when we are talking about car money but 20 vs 60 as you mention is not realistic as long as your not comparing the byd dolfin to a Mercedes.
I also never mentioned Chinese cars are poor quality. Actually they seem like quite good quality and as others have said their software seems good too though I’ve never driven one so I don’t know. The current automakers, whilst they have the build quality sorted, the software and a few is lacking
One suggestion no one seems to suggest is to buy a second hand car. Imo, you get much more value for your money and since the car is already made you help the environment out too by not consuming something that needed to be made just for you
How can you buy something in a system that doesn’t utilize monetary economics nor private systems of ownership?
And having easy access to transportation is but one of many reasons to change the system. Don’t act dumb with bad faith arguments like trying to frame it as the only reason.
Aquire, own, however you want to describe gaining a car in this alternative system. The point is, getting a product that is able to be acquired for an unfair price due to the CCP propping up and protecting their own companies would still be unfair.
I agree with your want for having everyone be more cooperative. The Chinese started by being quite cooperative in building cars with western companies. I used to think that was good but now that CCP has turned it around and doesn’t want to share any of their developed tech with other players, I think western business greed got the better of us. I’m not as pesemistic as others that the west is very far behind. European brands do make some killer electric cars but they may not have quite the range or quite the low price and they have not been on the market for that long.
Finally, I’m not trying to make bad faith arguments. I just disagree with your position that I’ll buy a dumped Chinese car because fuck the current players for not innovating. That is how I understand your position anyway, if that’s not right please explain the neuance I’m missing rather than attacking me
The problem is you still care about companies. I don’t. My position isn’t “fuck the current players for not innovating” it is “fuck them for exploiting the needs of people, in this specific instance the need of transportation, for profits and their unjust system of private ownership that allows for it to occur.”
The only thing Chinese cars being shipped here does is provide more cars. That’s a good thing for people who need cars. Anything beyond this isn’t my concern. I don’t care if it is bad for the owners of companies; that’s the fault of the system that requires them to compete for profit in order to be a valid business under the capitalist system. Manufacturing in this country can adapt and change their production and distribution to a different economic model, or they can get fucked honestly. If they don’t, then, eventually, the system that gives them control over these resources will collapse, which to me is a good thing, and then people can take back control of what is rightfully ours from the parasitic class, and we can change the economic model without the need for their input.
All of your arguments are still based around the capitalist system. I don’t care about it, if my needs and desires make it “bad for business”, then boohoo. Change the system so it is no longer a problem. The interests of companies and their owners mean nothing to me.
So your solution is change the whole system so you can buy a dumped Chinese car without any guilt?
And for the record, I wasn’t attacking you personally. I was calling you out for using rhetoric, quoted above, that was deliberately phrased to undermine my argument. That was a bad faith argument and I was heated as I didn’t appreciate my argument being blatantly misrepresented.
If you’re going as far as throwing out monetary economics, cheap doesn’t mean anything. You’re just describing equitable transportation access.
Even in that scenario, it’s not desirable to have that reliance on a foreign state for such a core function. Power dynamics aside, global supply chains are brittle (as seen during covid).
Never said a reliance. Just because they dump cars here doesn’t mean we lose our abilities to make our own. It just means we have more cars available. Which is a good thing. The only thing it is bad for is owners of business under the capitalist system but fuck the owners of businesses under the capitalist system.
Is there any domestically produced competition in Canada? The only one a search returns is still a concept (not yet commercially available). Everything else looks to be imported from elsewhere?
Canada doesn’t really have its own automaker. We do have American subsidiaries of Ford, etc. and if they’re gonna go under we’ll deal with that when it happens.
Yeah, let’s just have a repeat of the rare earth market. That worked out swell for the world to let an authoritarian government have a global monopoly.
I don’t think Canada needs poorly made and barely working Chinese crap.
Update: Hey, if you want to buy something Chinese, then go ahead, I can’t stop you, but even if these products are not badly made, remember that you are supporting the Chinese regime (and probably Russia) by your actions, so don’t pretend to be good and caring people later.
Questionable, my aunt bought a bunch of Chinese crap, and it’s all badly made and barely fulfills its functions. For example, the kettle has a handle that barely holds and is constantly wobbly, the meat grinder has a blade so blunt that it doesn’t even cut… meat, and so on.
Also, these things were probably made by slaves (and some of them, like phones, may be spyware), so…
If you buy shit, you get shit. If you go on Amazon looking for a Chinese-made chef’s knife, the options are $5 to $150.
Thank you, Captain Obvious, too bad that people aren’t mages and can’t understand the quality of a product through a screen, right?
If you want to blame someone for having a home full of chinese shit, the blame isn’t on China. It’s on your aunt lmao.
Am I supposed to blame my aunt for the fact that Chinese shit out poorly made crap? Strange logic, but she should definitely stop buying this crap… too bad she’s the type of person who doesn’t listen to anyone. Anyway, good thing is that my house isn’t full of Chinese crap, because I don’t buy it, she only gave me a few things, but I trashed those things to hell long ago.
If she’s shopping on Temu with white labeled products, she’s going to get what she paid for. Sounds like you’ve also concluded she’s the problem. She’s the demand side of the equation. If there’s demand for cheaply made crap, there will be more cheaply made crap.
There are also ways to gauge the quality of products before buying online. You make it sound like it’s impossible. Like reviews and research and buying from reputable brands that have good track records. Most of which are likely manufactured in China, but with actual quality assurance.
While I still say buying local is king, you’re like way too irrationally angry at this. Likely because she’s offloading cheap crap onto you and making it your problem.
Can they flood Canada with cheap EV as well?
You generally don’t want to incentivize the practice of dumping since its goal is putting competition out of business.
Don’t really care about the competition. I care about having cheap access to EVs. If the competition can’t compete, then fuck em. That’s not my problem.
This comment is the American consumer for the last 50 years, next step is complaining about outsourcing jobs and lower quality products with no competition.
That only matters under an economic system that necessities competition.
Change the economic system to one that encourages cooperation instead, and that won’t be an issue.
So your solution is change the whole system so you can buy a dumped Chinese car without any guilt?
Whilst I agree the system is broken, buying dumped goods only makes the situation worse as it means those players and playing on an uneven playing field
So let me get this straight, instead of buying a $20k Chinese EV to meet a necessity of modern life, you should pay $60k for a worse car where all the money goes to shareholders and dealership markups so you can be on an even playing field?
We’re not talking about buying the cheap throw away Chinese product instead of the built for life one, we’re not talking about consumerism at all. We’re talking about taking a 5+ year loan for something society forces you to own in most cities around the world, and making Elon rich isn’t a better alternative than having $40k in your savings account.
Not sure what market your in but in Europe the price gap is not that huge, 30% max far as I can tell. Obviously that’s still quite a bit when we are talking about car money but 20 vs 60 as you mention is not realistic as long as your not comparing the byd dolfin to a Mercedes.
I also never mentioned Chinese cars are poor quality. Actually they seem like quite good quality and as others have said their software seems good too though I’ve never driven one so I don’t know. The current automakers, whilst they have the build quality sorted, the software and a few is lacking
One suggestion no one seems to suggest is to buy a second hand car. Imo, you get much more value for your money and since the car is already made you help the environment out too by not consuming something that needed to be made just for you
“buy”
How can you buy something in a system that doesn’t utilize monetary economics nor private systems of ownership?
And having easy access to transportation is but one of many reasons to change the system. Don’t act dumb with bad faith arguments like trying to frame it as the only reason.
Aquire, own, however you want to describe gaining a car in this alternative system. The point is, getting a product that is able to be acquired for an unfair price due to the CCP propping up and protecting their own companies would still be unfair.
I agree with your want for having everyone be more cooperative. The Chinese started by being quite cooperative in building cars with western companies. I used to think that was good but now that CCP has turned it around and doesn’t want to share any of their developed tech with other players, I think western business greed got the better of us. I’m not as pesemistic as others that the west is very far behind. European brands do make some killer electric cars but they may not have quite the range or quite the low price and they have not been on the market for that long.
Finally, I’m not trying to make bad faith arguments. I just disagree with your position that I’ll buy a dumped Chinese car because fuck the current players for not innovating. That is how I understand your position anyway, if that’s not right please explain the neuance I’m missing rather than attacking me
The problem is you still care about companies. I don’t. My position isn’t “fuck the current players for not innovating” it is “fuck them for exploiting the needs of people, in this specific instance the need of transportation, for profits and their unjust system of private ownership that allows for it to occur.”
The only thing Chinese cars being shipped here does is provide more cars. That’s a good thing for people who need cars. Anything beyond this isn’t my concern. I don’t care if it is bad for the owners of companies; that’s the fault of the system that requires them to compete for profit in order to be a valid business under the capitalist system. Manufacturing in this country can adapt and change their production and distribution to a different economic model, or they can get fucked honestly. If they don’t, then, eventually, the system that gives them control over these resources will collapse, which to me is a good thing, and then people can take back control of what is rightfully ours from the parasitic class, and we can change the economic model without the need for their input.
All of your arguments are still based around the capitalist system. I don’t care about it, if my needs and desires make it “bad for business”, then boohoo. Change the system so it is no longer a problem. The interests of companies and their owners mean nothing to me.
And for the record, I wasn’t attacking you personally. I was calling you out for using rhetoric, quoted above, that was deliberately phrased to undermine my argument. That was a bad faith argument and I was heated as I didn’t appreciate my argument being blatantly misrepresented.
If you’re going as far as throwing out monetary economics, cheap doesn’t mean anything. You’re just describing equitable transportation access.
Even in that scenario, it’s not desirable to have that reliance on a foreign state for such a core function. Power dynamics aside, global supply chains are brittle (as seen during covid).
Never said a reliance. Just because they dump cars here doesn’t mean we lose our abilities to make our own. It just means we have more cars available. Which is a good thing. The only thing it is bad for is owners of business under the capitalist system but fuck the owners of businesses under the capitalist system.
EVs won’t be cheap for long if there’s no competition.
Is there any domestically produced competition in Canada? The only one a search returns is still a concept (not yet commercially available). Everything else looks to be imported from elsewhere?
Most countries don’t segment electric cars vs regular ice cars. It just falls under “cars”.
The same people making a decision to buy an ice vehicle would buy a heavily subsidized Chinese vehicle.
A lot of production occurs in Canada Toyota, and Stelantis have plants there
Canada doesn’t really have its own automaker. We do have American subsidiaries of Ford, etc. and if they’re gonna go under we’ll deal with that when it happens.
Yeah, let’s just have a repeat of the rare earth market. That worked out swell for the world to let an authoritarian government have a global monopoly.
With how shit the software is in American EVs we might as well skip the rare earths altogether
I don’t think Canada needs poorly made and barely working Chinese crap.
Update: Hey, if you want to buy something Chinese, then go ahead, I can’t stop you, but even if these products are not badly made, remember that you are supporting the Chinese regime (and probably Russia) by your actions, so don’t pretend to be good and caring people later.
Yes, lets all support the USA, currently a bastion of freedom for all.
Been to Mexico lately? BDS and other Chinese manufacturers are killing it, they make Teslas look like a Model T.
Really? My aunt buys Chinese things all the time, and yes, the things are cheap, but in a bad sense of the word, they are poorly made.
You live in a bubble of outdated information. China is surpassing US on so many fronts.
People act like iPhones aren’t made in China stg.
Better than American overpriced garbage.
Questionable, my aunt bought a bunch of Chinese crap, and it’s all badly made and barely fulfills its functions. For example, the kettle has a handle that barely holds and is constantly wobbly, the meat grinder has a blade so blunt that it doesn’t even cut… meat, and so on.
Also, these things were probably made by slaves (and some of them, like phones, may be spyware), so…
Here’s where I’m at.
If you buy shit, you get shit. If you go on Amazon looking for a Chinese-made chef’s knife, the options are $5 to $150.
If you want to blame someone for having a home full of chinese shit, the blame isn’t on China. It’s on your aunt lmao.
Thank you, Captain Obvious, too bad that people aren’t mages and can’t understand the quality of a product through a screen, right?
Am I supposed to blame my aunt for the fact that Chinese shit out poorly made crap? Strange logic, but she should definitely stop buying this crap… too bad she’s the type of person who doesn’t listen to anyone. Anyway, good thing is that my house isn’t full of Chinese crap, because I don’t buy it, she only gave me a few things, but I trashed those things to hell long ago.
If she’s shopping on Temu with white labeled products, she’s going to get what she paid for. Sounds like you’ve also concluded she’s the problem. She’s the demand side of the equation. If there’s demand for cheaply made crap, there will be more cheaply made crap.
There are also ways to gauge the quality of products before buying online. You make it sound like it’s impossible. Like reviews and research and buying from reputable brands that have good track records. Most of which are likely manufactured in China, but with actual quality assurance.
While I still say buying local is king, you’re like way too irrationally angry at this. Likely because she’s offloading cheap crap onto you and making it your problem.
Yeah, you’re probably right. Though, I will still avoid Chinese goods whenever possible, not because of the quality, but because of China.
“What you talking about Doc? All the best stuff is made in China.”
If I remember correctly, Doc was talking about Japan in the movie, not China :/
They’re making fun of you. Do you not see that?