• jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      3 days ago

      sometimes you’re working with particular releases or builds that don’t, but like i said i might be the idiot lol.

      i like the concept of arch. i don’t like the way i need to come up with a new solution for how im managing my packages virtually every few days that often requires novel information. shit, half the time you boot up an arch system if you have sufficient # of packages there is 9/10 times a conflict when trying to just update things naively. like i said it’s cool on paper and im sure once you use it as a daily driver for awhile it just becomes routine but it’s more the principle of the user experience and its design philosophy that i think might be poor.

      arch is for techies in the middle of the bell curve imo… people on the left and the right, when it comes to something as simple as managing all my packages and versions, want something that just worksTM - unless i specifically want to fuck with the minutiae.

      • Feyd@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        3 days ago

        conflict when trying to just update things naively

        Sounds like AUR problems. IMO using AUR helpers that tie AUR packages to your full system update command is a trap. AUR never professed to be a stable repository (in fact it’s the opposite). AUR has a place, but it should be used sparingly and thoughtfully.

        • jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 days ago

          i agree with this but this isn’t the reality of the arch ecosystem. AUR is explicitly promoted on the wiki for a large amount of tasks the average user is going to do. it feels skeevy to acknowledge the problems with the AUR and then abscond arch’s responsibility for them, because the AUR is not like PPAs or anything. it is significantly more integrated into the ecosystem.

          • Feyd@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            3 days ago

            The wiki article :

            • specifically says that packages are not thoroughly vetted
            • does not recommend using yay or another AUR helper (which is the primary thing I recommend against)
            • has a frequently asked question section that is fairly technical and should indicate that it is not for the faint of heart

            The aur helper wiki has a fun red disclaimer at the top that no one reads

            • jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              3 days ago

              you (rhetorical you, not you) can recommend not using the AUR officially all you want. it doesn’t mean anything if a large number of tasks the average user is going to do require AUR packages. i’m kind of drunk rn but i’ll go find specific pages of the wiki that demonstrate what i’m talking about, i stg this isn’t nothing. the core system itself can entirely be managed with pacman, yes, but the average user is going to be doing a lot more than just that. there is a certain discord in the messaging of arch as a whole.

              this is exactly my point. arch can either be a nuts and bolts distro or it can be made for normies. it can’t be both.

              • elo13@sopuli.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                2 days ago

                it doesn’t mean anything if a large number of tasks the average user is going to do require AUR packages

                You keep saying this but can you give any concrete examples? I don’t recall coming across anything like this.

              • Feyd@programming.dev
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                3 days ago

                To reiterate, I don’t think there is anything wrong with using the AUR. I think that using an AUR helper that ties updating AUR packages to your pacman -Syu is a trap that people keep falling into despite the warnings in the wiki.