For context, LDAC is one of the few wireless audio codecs stamped Hi-Res by the Japan Audio Society and its encoder is open source since Android 8, so you can see just how long Windows is sleeping on this. I’m excited about the incoming next gen called LC3plus, my next pair is definitely gonna have that.
For context, LDAC is one of the few wireless audio codecs stamped Hi-Res by the Japan Audio Society and its encoder is open source since Android 8
LDAC is great, but simply stating that the encoder is “open source” is quite misleading (while technically correct). The codec is owned by Sony and heavily licensed. It’s a savvy business move of Sony to make the encoder free to use though, so everyone else can support their standard while charging manufacturers who want to integrate it into their headphones.
If we want a really free and open high quality codec, we should push for opus support via bluetooth
Yes… I made double sure to mention ‘encoder’ between that.
Xiph really won the lossy codec scene with Opus and I transcoded all my junk to that format. Hitting (my personal) transparency on 128k vbr is flat out impressive and it warms my heart that corpos won’t have a reason to collect taxes for basic things like audio codec. However it’s a different story with bluetooth audio codec in which I hope will change.
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Transcoding to a (for them) transparent lossy result is perfectly fine if all you do is listen. I couldn’t care less about “audio qualities” that I cannot hear.
flac on pc, opus on phone. saves storage space
Because 75MB an album is better than 400MB when you’re trying to pack them on a mobile device. Flac is for archival.
Totally get this, but doesn’t it just matter less over time? 400 megs in my pocket would have been unthinkable some years ago, but now that I’ve got a 500GB SD card, I care a lot less (and thus, why transcode)?
And data storage is always getting cheaper, not the other way around.
Xiph really won the lossy codec scene with Opus and I transcoded all my junk to that format. Hitting (my personal) transparency on 128k vbr is flat out impressive
Same here. I’ve left myself a bit of a safety margin at 144k vbr, but having my whole library at transparent quality AND portable size is very convenient.
Though, now that opus 1.4 is out I feel a bit of anxiety whether i should re-encode everything from flac->opus1.4
I also prefer 144k vbr, glad to see I’m not alone.
Which tool do you use to re-encode everything to opus ?
I tried with ffmpeg and it works but I had many issues with covers.
same as @denissimo@feddit.de I use foobar2000 + wine. ffmpeg is alright, but fb2k is very convenient (especially for replaygain tagging). Afterwards I usually give the files a Picard treatment to get proper tags + covers.
I use foobar2000 + wine
Check out Strawberry it’s essentially the Linux native version of foobar2000.
does it support foobar2000 plugins?
probably not, since those are windows dlls. So here’s a short list of what I’d want from a fb2k replacement:
- a UI plugin with the power and flexibility of Facets/Refacets
- browse library by folder structure OR tags (most only do one or the other)
- powerful query language to actually find what I’m looking for
- binaural stereo for headphones plugin
- convolver
- convert to opus and replaygain scanning
- DR Meter
- handle my >100k tracks library without constantly crashing or being incredibly slow
Most alternatives I’ve tried can’t even deliver on half of those.
PS. Opus Bluetooth is already supported for pipewire->pipewire BT. AAC-LC which is commonly used is fully open source now so thats a good option
If we want a really free and open high quality codec, we should push for opus support via bluetooth
Isn’t the new default codec in BLE Audio LC3 free and open and high quality? And it’s required for BLE Audio support, so there will be more and more devices that support it.
LC3plus isn’t really HiFi. It’s designed to be low-complexity & low energy: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,122575.0.html
LC3Plus is more then sufficient for transparent audio at the typical rates you will achieve with bluetooth, 160k is really low and you can normally sustain around 300-600kbps which is more then sufficient for LC3Plus. this test is IMO flawed for the intents and purposes for bluetooth audio
EDIT: LC3Plus caps at 512kbps, I cant remeber if that is before or after FEC (forwards error correction, not to be mistaken with PLC, Packet Loss concealment, FEC is kinda like raid, PLC hides dropped data)
I recommend you all to switch to Pipewire. Most bluethooth problems are fixed.
Isn’t that standard on most linux systems?
if your distro is not using Pipewire youre using a shitty one
I’m so confused, please don’t confused a new linux user it doesn’t help me
You can find out if you have pipewire or pulseaudio by using
pactl info | grep "Server Name"You lost me
I believe @twei meant, if you open a terminal and put in the following command:
pactl info | grep “Server Name” the output should tell you what sound server you are using.Or an even better and less nerdy was is just using. System taskmaster and seeing pipewire
Pulseaudio used to be the standard audio server.Only recently pipewire has been taking its place.
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Not anything to do with the LDAC codec but why does wireless headphones on windows suck. On linux (even a wm) I just turn on my headphones and it works, on windows every time I have to remove the device and add it back again
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What about wireless headphones that don’t use bluetooth? I think I had some Logitech ones that did not use bluetooth. Are those a viable alternative to bluetooth on linux?
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It’s the same for me. I thought it’s due to the motherboard I’m using, windows being the problem never crossed my mind. The only thing that worked well and didn’t have to be re-installed after a disconnect was the new xbox controller, so I feel like maybe there’s something fishy going on here.
Its windows, at which point wasn’t it fishy?
The only thing in my head is the time where people didn’t know it had backdoors and telemetry. I think Windows XP actually didn’t have backdoors but I just assume this rn.
Huh, it works just fine for me. I have Samsung galaxy buds 2 pro. I don’t use it with my laptop often, but it’s seamless when I do.
Ldac is not actually that good, it’s actually fairly rare that LDAC beats out something like SBC XQ let alone AAC
EDIT: for elaboration, LDAC works at 3 main data rate ranges 990/909, 660/606 and 330/303. Ldac is only high res at the 990 range, and even at that range, it still often looses when pipewire is compiled against libfdk. keep in mind that it’s hard to get real numbers on LDAC because decoding is proprietary, meaning I had to disassemble headphones and connect those for verification, but typically AAC on supported headphones beat out 990kbps LDAC (which is hilarious btw considering LDAC can rarely actually work at 990kbps anyways) and both SBC-XQ and LC3Plus (both of which are usable with pipewire) regularly beat 660kbps LDAC.
TLDR LDAC is crap and SBC-XQ is typically more accurate and lower latency, and LC3Plus is even better then that. and if you have AAC compatible headphones assuming latency isnt a major issue (which you are using LDAC so it’s not) just use AAC, both fidelity and latency is better
EDIT: I should mention, it is known that vendors will tune codecs, I believe Valdikks article in habr briefly goes over this. so it’s very possible that tuning could mean that x codec, including LDAC could be the only good codec, however with how badly LDAC maintains 990kbps, I doubt it will make much of a difference
keep in mind that it’s hard to get real numbers on LDAC because decoding is proprietary
I used to think the same. But as it turns out, a decoder exists. Maybe some people don’t want anyone to know about it to keep the myths alive ;)
EDIT: Also, as a golden rule, whenever anyone sees the words High-Res in an audio context, they should immediately realize that they are being bullshitted.
just because a decoder exists doesnt mean it’s good and usable, and it also doesn’t mean you are legally allowed to use it without the appropriate licensing
Your skin glows quite beautifully, narc.
Lemmy instance choice does not check out ;)
Tell me you’re an apple fanboi without telling me you’re an apple fanboi.
LDAC is “only” high res @ 990. OK? WTF is your point? It sounds better than every other codec.
it still often looses when pipewire is compiled against libfdk
Can you explain the practical implication of this when I listen to music on my Pixel phone? (spoiler: there is none)
but typically AAC on supported headphones beat out 990kbps LDAC
100% total bullshit. Here are the tests:
https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/
AAC does not have better fidelity. What a joke of a claim.
at 990/909 kbps bluetooth can hardly hold that bitrate unless you have really good conditions so much as walking down a stream will bring it down to 660kbps
and yes, AAC does have better fidelity, at 320kbps AAC and Opus are largely transparent to 90% of users keep in mind I am comparing fdkaac on Pipewire, NOT android, this is an important distinction since they were testing android, and you can see here how spotty AAC is on android https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/
I am talking specifcally about linux in this context
EDIT: also it’s not about being an apple fanboy, Opus is largely just as good, marginally better, but no headphones support them, if you want you can even compile pipewire with higher bitrate limits on opus for stereo, (IIRC the pro profile can override it? cant remember but code is here https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/blob/master/spa/plugins/bluez5/a2dp-codec-opus.c)
opus is transparent for all the the most intense songs by 160kbps, and for regular stuff you’d hear on the radio it’s transparent anywhere from 96kbps-128kbps
while this is the case for a lot of songs, a lot of instrument heavy songs can cause noticeable artifacting for some people. It’s pretty rare, but in the end, it’s not like we are storing the media so why care? we can do upto 320kbps for a stereo stream, and as far as I am aware, it’s not like there are any detriments to doing so (maybe marginally higher power usage I guess).
I wasn’t able to myself, but I did have a friend test the snug space endless lane, and they were able to fairly reliably tell the difference between 128kbps and the original rip. the In the moonlight track too has a high pitch… triangle maybe? that can exhibit artifact too.
so like, yeah, but we have the 320kbps we can work with, so like, why not?
I definitely love it for the “it just works” (or rather, you have full control to make it work) factor!
I’m not familiar with the latest in BT audio, but isn’t the standard still sub-par in that it has very limited overall frequency bandwidth, resulting in deep sacrifices to fidelity?
I recall a detailed analysis of different BT audio codecs a while back, and the spectrum analysis always showed relatively high noise floor and frequency roll-off (hi-cut/low-cut) within the threshold of human hearing (though admittedly close to the limits). Also, I recall (and this could just be the 2016 tech I am familiar with) that overall bandwidth was limited in that if you played something with low frequency tones, the upper frequencies were dropped, or vice versa. I used to confirm this by using a flat EQ setting, then boosting any range, and you could easily detect the loss of frequency response in the adjacent or distant ranges.
Is this a thing of the past now?
No, soundguys made an anlysis. LDAC is still worse than direct contact and just makes some other sacrifices than aptX.
It is worse than uncompressed, but 990Kbps LDAC is the closest codec to totally transparent I’ve heard for Bluetooth audio. AptX HD is nearly as good to my ears, and is better than 660Kbps LDAC. The differences are very small though, especially when compared with the differences on the analog side, e.g. the amp, and particularly the headphone design.
Apple side-steps the problem by, at least when you’re listening to Apple Music, simply sending the AAC stream as-is to the headphones and has them decode the audio. I don’t know why that isn’t a more common approach.
I’m still somewhat bemused that we’re talking about Bluetooth codecs at all. It surely can’t be that difficult technically to get 1.5Mbps actual throughput on Bluetooth and simply send raw 16-bit/44.1Khz PCM. 2.4Ghz WiFi is capable of hundreds of times that speed. Bluetooth has been stuck at the same speeds for decades.
I love it because “it just works” (or rather, you have full control to make it work)
This is such a perfect microcosm of the hilarious irony of Linux fanatics.
I actually prefer AptX HD but I wish my Android would default to it instead of LDAC
Why do you prefer AptX?
The HD version is pretty good, lower bitrate, but solid quality and tolerance for distance.
Ldac if it’s an option, aptx HD otherwise.
Isn’t aptx majorly encumbered by copyright?
I’m still wondering how to make my headphones work on pop os without crackling
Switching to pipewire from ALSA cured that for me.
Sony did drop the ball with LDAC quite quickly, it could’ve been the new standard.
But with the release of the WH-1000XM3s (or was it the 4s?) they basically made most of the selling points incompatible with LDAC, so now almost no one uses it anymore.
Yes, LDAC and multipoint do not mix hence I’m looking forward to LC3plus that replaces it. To be fair it’s not a big issue to roll back to AAC or even SBC to use multipoint, because you probably aren’t gonna notice a difference when you don’t listen to high res apps like Tidal. It also should be known that a good codec does not fix mediocre drivers and/or chips. Regardless, Linux shines in letting you use a feature you did pony up for. :)
Oh LDAC conflicts with mutli-connection? That’s why I can’t get it on my 1000xm4?? It’s good to finally have an answer.
On my headphones, you can either use LDAC with one device or SBC/AAC with two devices. I can only change it via the app. Is there a similar setting for you?
Tell me you’ve never actually tested the quality of a codex and how it’s used without saying it.
