If it leads to an actual change - everyone wins.

But I doubt anything will change, with Bibi being the snake he is.

It’s existence is an abomination

And that, kids, is why we have wars. The moment people with power start saying “yeah Israel should exist but also should a Palestinian state” - that’s when we’ll have peace.

Dude that’s like blaming the U.S army for snowden.

The IDF and the Shin Bet are totally different entities

A monopoly isn’t inherently bad, but a monopoly by a state is pretty bad. It means they can exert political pressure over you using that sector’s influence.

Heck, look at Russia and gas. It impacted tons of people all over the world, and if the world hadn’t collectively said “fuck you Russia we’ll handle ourselves without you” - then countries like Germany wouldn’t have a choice but keep buying Russian Gas.

That’s a political power you really don’t wanna give to anyone, especially not China.

Yes, competition could restart, but that’d take time. And you don’t always have that time. Again, see Russia and gas as a nice example for that.

And what’ll be after the disbandment? Hamas who train children with guns and parade naked bodies? Or the PLO who fund families of suicide bombers?

The world either needs to treat Israel as Russia (risking them thinking “we’ve got nothing to lose” and actually genociding Gaza) Or to take the security role off of Israel, and manage Palestinians instead of Israel, who prefer dead Gazans over dead Israelis.

*Bloodthirsty government.

Fuck Netanyahu.

It’s a bit more complicated than that. You don’t want total reliance from one country (especially one as questionable as China) over a whole big ass sector of your economic. And China being super cheap will cause a monopoly of their EVs. That’s bad.

That’s an actually really solid case.

I do think though that the world also needs to help Israel in the fight against Hamas. You can’t expect them to both be humane with the same standard as the rest of the west, while they’re the only ones being constantly attacked (and very effectively so).

So while you can and should expect change from the situation, you can’t expect it to come for free and one sidedly.

Please learn to read what he wrote before saying anything.

The few Palestinians that don’t have a refugee status do so, because they were already living in Gaza

He was talking about the 48 war, and their refugee status since then.

Right now Gazans are refugees, yes, but they were considered “refugees” even before this war, when they had a home (which is now probably destroyed since oct.7).

I’m informed, I just also know how to read.

And that kids, is why peace just isn’t thing in the middle east. When you think of the other side as something meant to just be destroyed, don’t be surprised when peace doesn’t last and ceasefires break.

… But jews aren’t considered refugees… I fail to see your point in comparing that, since european jews are indeed not refugees. Their grandparents were refugees after the 2nd world war, but now they’re Israelis or migrated to another country. In both cases, not refugees anymore.

What country did Palestinians migrate to?

because they value their citizens

Hiding hostages in a highly populated residential area, without any means of self defense or even evacuation safe zones, is not called valuing the citizens. It’s called using them as leverage, something terrorists love doing to civilians.

What did the spilling of blood on oct.7 did to Palestinians? Make them live in hell for over 8 months? Make thousands die? And for what, for massacring Israelis? What do you think Hamas has done in oct.7 that would make you think they “value their citizens” - coz to me it only looks like they just wanna kill jews.

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You mean their grandparents were displaced by Israel. They themselves were born in Gaza or the West bank, and should be considered residents of that land. If attempts of trying to “free palestine” by terrorism stop, and plans like Oslo could be continued of establishing a state in the 67 borders, then Palestinians can stop being refugees. Meanwhile no Palestinian organization is doing what’s good for their people - which is to try and make peace over existing borders.

I mean, say what you want but 100% dozens of those 200 are Hamas terrorists. He’s not wrong. Heck, we don’t even know if it was indeed 200 killed.

Also how is nobody here even a bit mad over Hamas hiding hostages in a refugee camp?

Ah yes, so every american shouldn’t ever feel any joy because they were born on stolen land.

Get out of here. Any person saying they want the 48 borders are a lunatic living in la-la land. You only enforce the Israeli twisted view of “there could never be peace with them” by actually showing that you want the genocide of all Israelis, instead of realistic borders of a palestinian state. Fuck you.

Ah yes, well established fact… By who exactly? By kids at universities thousands of kilometers away?

And even if we take your (baseless) estimate of 1:4 ratio, that’s still nowhere close to call it a targeted attack on civilians. Compare it to other urban warfare, and see for yourself, they don’t kill enough civilians to justify any of your claims.

Look at the numbers, and actually base your own opinion, rather than repeating words that people who are very not objective keep repeating. And differentiate between the IDF and the Israeli government. Since they’re vastly different both in world-view (one being extremely corrupt right wing) and in actions done. The racist israeli government expands settlements (and almost sparked a mini civil war between jews and arabs, ahem ahem Ben Gvir), while the IDF manages to supply aid trucks into Gaza, and evacuate Gazans from their (tunnel holes and weapon having) homes.

Basically your whole pov is based on the fact that you think the IDF are targeting civilians. Since you’re clearly set in that opinion, I won’t further that point. Just food for thought: if they really do target civilians… Do you think the numbers would truly be 1:2 Hamas:civilian? If so, then sure. Whatever.

Oh and I’d love a source on that “vast majority of Palestinian prisoners are innocents” claim, since that sounds pretty far fetched, even considering the borderline alt-right current Israeli government.

And I really wish to understand your logic on Hamas not being genocidal… Is firing rockets almost every year towards civilian areas not a “concrete pattern of action”? Also, does genocide must happen towards a religion? What does the victim’s jewishness have anything to do with it?

Hamas wants to exterminate all Israelis. They keep saying it, and before oct.7 everyone thought (like you) that they’re all bark no bite, just saying stuff. That proved to be false. They bite, and they mean what they say. They proved it all too well, and I really don’t see how you fail to see their very really intent to kill all Israelis.

The only thing keeping Israelis from death by Hamas is the IDF. They’d all be dead or relocated (probably dead if we trust their rhetoric, which I do, after seeing their barbarism).

And again, if you truly think the IDF is more barbaric than Hamas, I just have no words. You either haven’t seen the videos hamas posted themselves, or are blinded by hate.

Bombing houses (after evacuation notices, which you call genocidal - I call humane. Do you wish they bombed it without warning in advance?) is soooooo much less barbaric than abusing dead bodies and burning families with their houses (knowingly, and shooting/kidnapping them when they leave).

Lots to reply here so I’ll just focus on some points I want to stress

First, lumping the IDF with the Israeli government is very wrong, and shows you have no real idea of how that military works. It’s like blaming the german army of genocide in WW2 instead of the nazi regime. The IDF really do their best to hurt as few civilians they can, and only target threatening targets in Gaza. The IDF is not commiting genocide, according to the definition, by the simple fact that it isn’t targeting genocidal goals. Yes, it dislocates and even kills civillians, but none are intentional or targeted, and they literally give up the element of surprise (something which 100% costs them military lives) in order to evacuate civilians before an invasion/bombing. As an army, it’s outstandingly humane.

Another point about the IDF, with regards to barbarism. You should really look at what Hamas did on oct.7, and try to compare it to how the IDF works. Comparing the two in terms of barbarism is really nuts.

The Israeli government tho on the other hand, are pretty much just as you say. If you allowed Ben Gvir to do as he pleases, we’d have a legit genocide of 2 million dead Gazans. The difference is that Israel has a functioning court of law (which Netanyahu a.k.a putin2.0 tried to weaken), and an actual opposition in their Parliament, which prevents them from acting on those genocidal plans (not 100% works tho, as we’ve seen in the start of the war where no aid trucks arrived at Gaza)

Oh and about the kidnapped vs palestinians arrests, don’t compare people who commit (or try to commit) terrorism to people who simply lived in a Kibutz/partied in the Nova.

Finally, Hamas is completely genocidal. Their lack of means of acting on that will, doesn’t make them less genocidal. Their “exterminate all jews” rhetoric is definitely a literal goal, considering the act of oct.7, which the main plan was sieging cities/Kibbutzim and killing/kidnapping their residence. It wasn’t just “a hateful rhetoric” it was a well planned extermination of the civilians, which sadly worked brilliantly.