I believe what you say. I don’t believe that is what the article is saying.

I’m not attacking philosophical arguments between the 1950s and the 1980s.

I’m pointing out that the claim that consciousness must form inside a fleshy body is not supported by any evidence.

I’m not saying it’s less likely. I’m saying there is a completely different reason for deepseek to exist.

The philosopher has made an unproven assumption. An erroneously logical leap. Something an academic shouldn’t do.

Just because everything we currently consider conscious has a physical presence, does not imply that consciousness requires a physical body.

It’s hard to see that books argument from the Wikipedia entry, but I don’t see it arguing that intelligence needs to have senses, flesh, nerves, pain and pleasure.

It’s just saying computer algorithms are not what humans use for consciousness. Which seems a reasonable conclusion. It doesn’t imply computers can’t gain consciousness, or that they need flesh and senses to do so.

The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t think the CCP cares about the users of deepseek mobile app when they already have an ocean of data from tiktok. That’s the real trojan horse.

Mobile access to an LLM is a similarity. The big difference between chatgpt and deepseek is the open model weights.

So why is a real “thinking” AI likely impossible? Because it’s bodiless. It has no senses, no flesh, no nerves, no pain, no pleasure.

This is not a good argument.

Bad intentions? The Chinese government Deepseek showed that the OpenAI emperor had no clothes.

Dude, you are the one inserting words like “freedom” trying to slide the conversation.

China is not worse , principally because worse is unmeasurable.

No one was talking about openness, we were talking about data collection.

The only way to ensure no data collection is to run locally, which requires openness.

You’re comparing online models with local models.

Correct

Local OpenAI models are also private.

They don’t exist, and privacy cannot be guaranteed.

Good thing no one said that. It’s not just America either.

So you do think that.

Most countries are significantly more free than China (and Russia and North Korea),

The word used was “worse” which is highly subjective.

and if you don’t believe that, you need to open your eyes.

Residents of “the land of the free” don’t understand irony.

Where is the ChatGPT repository?

Then why are you asking binary questions about countries

Because a highly opinionated binary statement was made about China. I’m not saying China is better than the US. I’m saying it’s not worse.

You asked “which countries”.

Countries and LLM model providers associated with those countries.

• All openai data goes to the NSA

• Online deepseek data goes to the CCP. Local models stay private.

You can’t possibly believe China is not much much worse than the US.

When it comes to AI models, China is streets ahead in openness.

But if you are introducing other factors, ask an Iranian what they prefer; money from China or bombs from the US and vassal states?

The only people believing that Americans are superior in everything are Americans.

One goal was to increase defense burden-sharing with allies. but withdraw from NATO wasn’t a project goal.

There are also many others in US and worldwide.

We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.

China is worse when comparing many other factors

Again, not an opinion everyone agrees on. And this very much depends on which factors are cherry picked.

but if ALL you care about is whether the model weights are os,

If you want privacy then you need to run locally, and to run locally all you do care about is model weights.

then it is usually not decided by countries, but rather companies.

Not sure why this dimension is worth adding to the discussion.

I mean we can generally agree that China is worse.

Can we? Which country had open sourced it’s models and weightings so that the LLM can be run locally and spyfree?

Fincest, surely.

In theory they provide advice in areas that the company is not expert in. E.g. a pharmaceutical company would ask a consultant to recommend and implement an accounting system.

https://archive.is/tcv2p

When you used to work for them and hope to return someday as partner, so you push as much business their way as you can.