Are people in Russian-occupied territories free to protest against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? No. They would get put in prison, or worse. So they aren’t free.

The only free people in this reality are billionaires. It’s not about who is free, it is about who is more free. Are you trying to say that people on liberated territories are less free than people on Zelensky controlled territories because… they can protest Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? So the ability to protest Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is more important than freedom of movement and not being kidnapped from the streets?

I do think Ukrainians should be allowed to leave Ukraine.

Well thank you at least for that (that’s not even sarcasm btw, that’s already more helpful than most of the world), but again - you support Zelensky’s regime which is the one making it impossible.

But you seem to be blaming Zelenskyy for the Russian shells, being fired by Russian forces.

I blame him for turning Ukraine into his North Korea. I blame him for trapping people, who die trying to cross the border by mountains/rivers, or hide at homes afraid to leave. I blame him for kidnapping people from the streets and sending them to the meatgrinder (so, killing them).

For some reason you don’t want to put any blame at all on the Kremlin - why is that?

Here it is: I condemn Kremlin, Russia, Putin and everybody else responsible for this war.

But “Ukraine bad”, “Russia good” right? Why criticizing only Ukraine and Zelensky since they’re defending their land and not even a word against Russia or Putin?

I never said “Russia good”.
Here, just for you: Russia and Putin are bad.

You make it seem like that surrendering to an invasion is the right thing to do.

No, I don’t.

So if Russia decided to invade the whole of Europe we should sit waiting for russian soldiers to rape our sisters and moms and execute us with our hands tied behind our back?

No, you are free to do what you want, including fighting Russia. But if you try to to kill me, my family, my friends - don’t be surprised that I’d rather support Russia than you…

Moreover, in occupied Ukraine people get drafted anyways by Russia to fight Ukrainian soldiers. So what? Should they surrender waiting to go to the opposite side?

People who accept Russian citizenship (which is generally not forced onto anyone) may get drafted (there was some exemption though for people on liberated territories till 2024, not sure if it’s still in effect though). People are frre to leave at any moment though.
This is also wrong, but in no way comparable to Zelensky’s regime kidnapping people on the streets every single day and trapping them in the country. (There were some cases of that happening in LPR & DPR previously, which is also terrible, but again not nearly on a similar scale to what Zelensky is doing)

I do think there is a point to make here. Ukrainians should be free to leave their country if they want.

But you still support Zelensky’s regime that makes it impossible, don’t you? :/
You might not believe me, but if Zelensky didn’t turn Ukraine into his small huge North Korea where trapped people are kidnapped from the streets and sent to the meatgrinder - I’d be donating money to my country every month. But Zelensky made sure to make this impossible - supporting his regime is supporting trapping innocent people in a war-torn country with missiles/drones/shells flying over them. People afraid of leaving their homes because “recruitment officers” can kidnap them them and send to die. People try to escape this hell, and die trying to “illegally” cross the border through rivers/mountains. Zelensky made sure to become our enemy #1.

But anyway, I strongly disagree with your view that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine is “liberating” anything or anyone.

But how is this not a liberation? Quote from a dictionary:

To set free, as from oppression, confinement, or foreign control.

People on the liberated territories are not confined and can leave at any time. People on Zelensky controlled territories quite literally cannot leave. You can argue that it wasn’t started as liberation. But it is now, unless my dictionary is wrong about the definition of word “liberate”. It didn’t have to be, but thanks to Zelensky it is.

Maybe if blood thirsty dictator putin didn’t start a war of aggression, there could have been 0 deaths.

That’s probably correct. I’m not Putin though, could you please not hold me accountable for his actions?

I’d rather die fighting russia than dying by their firing squad, being raped, tortured, electrocuted or malnourished in their prisons.

Ok, that’s your choice, you are free to do whatever you want, including dying for your beliefs, it is not a problem.
A problem begins when you want/support other people dying for your beliefs.

Lol, people usually report me because “spreading misinformation/propaganda” or something along those lines, but @SomeGuy69@lemmy.world is more creative and reported this comment for “talking like a true rapist” :D

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй

Да, хорошую историю с нашими “героями” которые якобы предпочли умереть чем сдаться русским форсили тогда в новостях… Потом правда оказалось что они таки все сдались, и даже в википедии на понятном для тебя языке это описано, но история то какая ;)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_warship,_go_fuck_yourself

Anyway, calling me Ivan (a Slavic, not a Russian name) and writing to me in Russian to allege that I’m Russian is incredibly stupid… You do know that Ukraine (except the western part of it) speaks (or rather speaked, until the war and introduction of “language-police” in some cities…) Russian a lot, and especially so in cities? I’ve heard very little Ukrainian on the streets back when I lived in Ukraine :)

Anyway, you do not seem to be interested in having a discussion or changing your mind :(

Liberated? Go and fuck yourself, Russian troll.

Well, I didn’t expect a better answer :)

Is it better to be drafted now, or wait until Putin has another territory to “liberate”

Are you absolutely seriously asking whether it is better to almost cetrainly die now, or have a chance of dying in some hypothetical situation later? I’ll choose the latter every single time, thank you…

Is it suddenly ok when it’s Russia drafting “free” Ukrainians from those “liberated” territories?

No, it’s also not OK. It doesn’t happen on even remotely similar scale to what Zelensky is doing.

Are the kidnapped children free now? Happy? Doubtful.

Probably not.
At least they are alive in contrast to all the men Zelensky’s regime kidnapped and sent to die.

Living there, it seems like you live your normal life. But you can’t express your thoughts, there are topics you can’t discuss, you can’t go where you want. You live like a spider in a jar. You are kept inside, and you run in circles like horses in a circus ring. Those who expect Ukraine to save us are having a hard time. It’s hard on morale. You’re not allowed to speak about Ukraine; Ukrainian symbols are banned. If you hear something, or say something they think is wrong, they grab you and put you in a basement.

So, the same as in Ukraine, but without the kidnappings and with an ability to leave at any time.

They don’t have a choice. It is this or being Russian slaves.

Hey, thank you for your insightful comment!

Could you please expand on that and tell me more about people in Crimea and other liberated cities being Russian slaves?

Also while you are at it - could you please also explain to me how being unable to leave your country where you can be kidnapped on a street at any day and sent to die is not considered slavery / is better than “being Russian slave”? How did that happen that “Russian slaves” can move to Ukraine controlled territories at any time and supposedly stop being slaves, but those who are on Ukraine controlled territories cannot do the opposite (and yet for some reason you wouldn’t consider them slaves)?

Because you know, the thousand day invasion threatening their existence.

Whose existence?
Seriously, what kind of mental gymnastics one needs to do to consider this a valid argument…
Show me, how is the existence of people on liberated territories (like Crimea, Melitopol and so on) are threatened?
Or maybe those people are actually okay (well, at least relatively to those of us who are still stuck on Zelensky controlled territories…) and it’s the lives of those whom Zelensky can still reach are threatened, because his regime can kidnap them at any moment and send to the meatgrinder?

The only “fight for survival” is against Zelensky.

Seems that Zelensky’s regime is not happy with amount of videos showing TCC kidnapping people from the streets.

Especially now that even western media started using the word “busification”. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/03/ukraine-is-employing-increasingly-controversial-methods-for-mobilization_6728127_4.html

So now they will try to jail everyone who dares to document it.

Listing so many pieces of bullshit is still bullshit.

What is bullshit? Zelensky’s regime kidnapping people and sending them to the meat grinder? You not wanting to see it for some reason doesn’t make it false.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/03/ukraine-is-employing-increasingly-controversial-methods-for-mobilization_6728127_4.html

But if Putin doesn’t like the results of the war he started, he can always leave.

I am sure you won’t believe me, but I’m not Putin. My friends are not Putin. My family are not Putin. Believe it or not, every other Ukrainian getting exterminated by Zelensky is not Putin as well. Could you please tell us, what do we need to do to not get kidnapped on a street and sent to die in the meat grinder? To be able to leave country to safety?

You misspelled Putin

Are you sure?

Damn, mass kidnapping people on territories he doesn’t even control (Kiev, Kharkiv, Odessa, Lviv, well every single city and village out there) seems really impessive, I wonder how does he do it…

Thank you for the feedback, I’ll take it into account.

So the argument is basically same as saying that the americans committed genocide during vietnam war because of the draft.

It’s not at all the same. What US government did to their own citizens and to the countries they invaded is also terrible, but US government can’t really genocide US citizens. People in US can have guns and can defend themselves from being kidnapped on a street and put into vans by people in masks. We, Ukrainians, can’t really defend ourselves. Our only options are running or knives / pepper sprays. It is not an effective defence mechanism against people with rifles. I am also not aware of people being kidnapped by US government (at least on the scale Zelensky is doing that) during Vietnam war. Nobody prevented people from leaving the country. The terror that Zelensky is doing is in no way comparable to what you’re trying to compare it with.

As a European that’s what I expect our government to do during an invasion. I would not call that genocide even if I’m sent to die.

Well, you don’t value your life or other people’s lives. I do.

So your point is that Ukraine is committing genocide by forcing their citizens to defend their country?

Zelensky’s regime is commiting genocide by kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to die, yes.

And somehow they are the bad guys, not the imperialist Russians?

As far as I know, real life doesn’t work like cartoons where there is a good guy and a bad guy. I never said that Putin is a good guy, I even explicitly said otherwise (for those who like to go to through my comments). And yet, whenever I mention Zelensky exterminating Ukrainians somebody must say “BuT tHEn You SuPPoRt RuSSiA!!”…

Maybe I misunderstood, but if not, that is some impressive mental gymnastics.

Way less impressive than funding a war, exterminating people, mass imprisoning them and so on, and still still somehow claim that you support them…

Eh, and that’s what I am talking about it…

Nothing would convince you. If Zelensky suceeds in wiping out every single Ukrainian from the face of Earth you will still find some excuse why it’s not genocide, or why it was good… :/

Yes sources on all the things you listed would be great.

Sure, here you go.

Here is one about millions of Ukrainians being imprisoned in Ukraine, held as Zelensky’s hostages, since the start of the war: https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411

Here is ex-AFU colonel talking about how Zelensky turned Pokrovsk into a concentration camp: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7AXSB_WnYV0

As for the kidnappings, this shit happens every single day, there are so many videos and articles IN WESTERN MEDIA about this, how some people are still pretending this does not happen is beyond me… There is even a word for that now - busification. One moment you walk on a street minding your own business, and another moment you’re being packed in a van by people in masks. Just enter it in your favourite search engine. https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
https://files.catbox.moe/6vasrt.mp4
https://files.catbox.moe/ur24tz.mp4
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/03/ukraine-is-employing-increasingly-controversial-methods-for-mobilization_6728127_4.html

And yes saying the leader of Ukraine is “genociding” Ukrainians is a meth head take on the situation. It almost sounds like you recently learnt that word and are applying it to everything.

So, how would you name it instead? OK sure, maybe “genocide” is too sensational, would “exterminate” be better? Or maybe simple “mass murder of hundreds of thousands (if not millions…)” is better?

EDIT: Although, considering that they started talking about genociding FOURTEEN YEAR OLDS “if such a need would arise” - I’ll continue calling this for what this is - a fucking genocide.

https://news.telegraf.com.ua/ukraina/2024-10-22/5882757-snizit-mobilizatsionnyy-vozrast-do-14-let-nuzhno-budet-pri-odnom-uslovii-korchinskiy-obyasnil

Any sources on this?

Sure, what exactly would you like to have source for? People being mass imprisioned in Ukraine? Zelensky’s concentration camps? Kidnappings of people?

Edit: reading through your comment history you sound like a meth head lmao

Why? Because I’m “slightly unhappy” with Zelensky trying to kill me, my friends, family, and well, all Ukrainians? :/

(If you went through my comment history, you should have seen sources for everything I’ve said already, but I don’t mind reposting them for you)