We’ve all been there.
I’ve seen this but with a final message of “Sorry, that password is already in use by user about2getOwned@gmail.com.”
- Login to their account
- Change their password to something else
- Set your password
But what if the password you want to set is already in use?
Refer to my above comment until that is no longer the case.
Fun fact: password controls like this have been obsolete since 2020. Standards that guide password management now focus on password length and external security features (like 2FA and robust password encryption for storage) rather than on individual characters in passwords.
People should be made aware of all the tools available to properly manage tons of passwords. Not even going too deep into “passkey” stuff or any modern shenanigans, but a password manager used to generate random passwords for each separate sites is such a simple step.
Since 2017 at least; and IIRC years before that; that’s just the earliest NIST publication on the subject I could find with a trivial Web search.
https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html
Verifiers SHOULD NOT impose other composition rules (e.g., requiring mixtures of different character types or prohibiting consecutively repeated characters) for memorized secrets. Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). However, verifiers SHALL force a change if there is evidence of compromise of the authenticator.
“Memorized secrets” means classic passwords, i.e. a one-factor authentication through a shared secret presumed to be known to only the right person.
For today’s 10,000 who have never seen it, https://xkcd.com/936/ succinctly explains why the whole mixed character types thing isn’t favoured.
Except you can run a dictionary attack on that and suddenly it’s only 4 variables that are cracked way faster than the first password.
Except you can run a dictionary attack on that and suddenly it’s only 4 variables that are cracked way faster than the first password.
I wouldn’t say obsolete because that implies it’s not really used anymore. Most websites and apps still use validation not too dissimilar from the OP, even if it goes against the latest best practices.
I wouldn’t say obsolete because that implies it’s not really used anymore.
I’m not sure where you heard someone use the word “obsolete” that way, but I assure you that there are thousands if not millions of examples of obsolete technologies in constant and everyday use.
Yeah i agree. The best example of this is Linux. To anyone who disagrees, why does a modern operating system require you to use a terminal, or edit config files instead of changing settings in a gui?
Its THE example of ancient software being pushed on to niave techies that would rather have an insecure open source project than a safe, walled garden like Microsoft Windows 11.
Although Windows 11 does have its problems. The chief of which is bogging down the streamlined simplicity with things a normal user wont need like a package manager.
The best example of this is Linux.
Ouch… so, you might want to learn more about technology before commenting in a Technology community…
why does a modern operating system require you to use a terminal
Because a terminal is one of the most powerful modes of interaction ever invented. It can serve as a relatively low-tech UI, but it is also simple enough to be used as a machine interface. It is lightweight, works even when other protocols and interfaces are thwarted by infrastructure issues, because it is simple text, but also meant to be read by a human, it can make for a great interface for logging, you don’t have to guess at which obscure standard (if any) to use to talk to it, compliance with relevant standards is baked into nearly every language ever written, etc.
Try building a system like Kubernetes on graphical UIs… I dare you.
Its THE example of ancient software being pushed on to niave techies
What industry are you working in?! AWS is nearly all Linux. Google Cloud is nearly all Linux. Android is Linux. Hell, even Microsoft finally relented and is now strongly supporting their Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) because it’s necessary for supporting modern cloud applications.
that would rather have an insecure open source project than a safe, walled garden like Microsoft Windows 11.
Okay, this has to be a troll… right? This is a troll? Please tell me you can’t be serious.
I know it can be hard to have your ideas quedtioned, but at least try to be civil. I never questioned your intentions, yet youre acting like im crazy. A walled garden is obviously more secure than an open source project because nobody can even see the code to find vulnerabilities in it. There is a reason why Android is moving further and further away from open sores code.
What industry are you working in?! AWS is nearly all Linux. Google Cloud is nearly all Linux. Android is Linux. Hell, even Microsoft finally relented and is now strongly supporting their Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) because it’s necessary for supporting modern cloud applications.
I understand that you like horses. You ride one every day, and you might have evwn named your horse. The fact is that its time to buy a car. Notice i said buy. Quality software costs money, and always will. Its time to move into the future with the rest of us.
the terminal is simple
Yes i agree. Throwing rocks is also simpler than firing a gun, yet modern militaries arent training slingers anymore. Ive developed games using Windows exclusivley (for a lot of money i asure you) and ive never once had to use a terminal ever. I literally just have to email my source code to my boss, and he compiles it. I have no need to know how, because its not my problem. Theres no need to use a terminal when i have Visual Studio and Outlook. If you want to be a cool hackerman you can, but id rather use something thats intuitive and works.
I think anyone who uses Linux is stuck in the past. Communism doesnt work either, bucko.
I know it can be hard to have your ideas quedtioned, but at least try to be civil. I never questioned your intentions, yet youre acting like im crazy.
I think that’s all you. I have never suggested that you are crazy. I suggested that calling Microsoft software “safe” as opposed to Linux which is, “insecure,” sounds like trolling. But that’s because it sounds like trolling. No crazy stated or implied.
A walled garden is obviously more secure than an open source project because nobody can even see the code to find vulnerabilities in it.
You should learn more about the world of software. Seriously. Security experts have been reasonably unanimous in their support of the “Many Eyes Make All Bugs Shallow” approach to software security for decades, even while they have criticized it as a mantra that ignores the flaws in a presumption of open source software security.
But just to put it in a simple logically sealed box: Microsoft’s source code has been leaked several times, and of course, bad actors probably have gained access to it throughout the years without such public knowledge. This means that the fundamental difference between Microsoft’s proprietary codebase and open source codebases is not, cannot be the availability of source code. Rather, it is the ability for independent groups to review the code on an ongoing basis.
When the only difference is independent review, the only possible result is higher security.
I understand that you like horses. You ride one every day, and you might have evwn named your horse. The fact is that its time to buy a car.
None of this constitutes a logical refutation to the examples I provided, which are critical components of modern software development and deployment.
Source: I’m a professional software release engineer who has worked with many of the world’s largest corporations.
Quality software costs money
For starters, this is unfounded cargo culting. There is no evidence for this at all. I can point to dozens of very expensive piles of crufty old software that no one should ever go near, and also to some free software that is literally foundational to the modern software world.
Money has nothing to do with the quality of software, but you’re also mistaken if you think open source software is free. You can pay IBM millions of dollars for a suite of enterprise-ready open source software. Most of the cost in such software is rarely the software itself. It’s services, support, training and customization.
Throwing rocks is also simpler than firing a gun, yet modern militaries arent training slingers anymore
But they are succeeding wildly by using largely open source software running on open hardware for drones, networking, battlefield analysis, logistics, etc.
I too love the Password game! Please save Paul! ~I truly care about him!~ Truly!
(Sorry, I sometimes like to post really bad comments…)
“Sorry, that password is already in use” ruins it for me. That’s not a realistic message to receive.
Maybe “Your password cannot be one you’ve used previously”.
Should be: “your password cannot be one of your last 24 passwords”
At my work they wanted better security, and made the rule of minimum 12 characters, must include all sorts of numbers, special characters, etc, no previously used password and it must be changed every month, 3 attempts then the account is locked and you have to call IT.
The result was that people wrote their passwords on post-its on the screen, so it led to worse security overall and they had ro relax the rules.
The worst one is when it only supports up to like 16 characters but doesn’t tell you so it will only use the first 16 characters and ignore the rest. The next time you need to enter it and get the 64 character password from your password manager it will just say it incorrect and you’re left with no idea on why it’s wrong.
I can do you one worse.
My banking app password was not case sensitive for many, many years. They finally fixed it a few years back though!
Had this problem with mint mobile a while ago haha
Holy shit you might have just explained why I have to reset my password every time for a local fast food joints own website
This was me on a bank’s site till I clued in that I need to shorten my password.
Why do you have an account for your local fast food joint?!
so he can get even faster food? idk
To order through their site, I try to use the places own sites instead of justeat etc so they get more of the money. As you can imagine they aren’t the best websites though.
You can’t just order per telefon?
Password can’t exceed 32 characters
Garbage
i wouldn’t even mind if it was 32. 32 is a damn strong password.
I’ve seen as low as 10 digits in the past
My Wells Fargo password used to be max 8 characters, and when you use the phone you you can basically use the keypad to log in.
So it’s basically 8 DIGITS
32 is a damn strong password
Not necessarily: only if it’s generated properly, and only for the moment - that will change in the next few years.
You do realize that length and symbol type are only 2 out of many other factors that go into a strong password?
Ok, fair, not all 32 digit passwords will be secure.
11111111111111111111111111111111 is not secure, but I was trying to imply, in a properly generated password, 32 digits long is very secure.
but I was trying to imply, in a properly generated password, 32 digits long is very secure.
I understand, and I think you make a valid point as far as the discussion is concerned.
It’s unfortunately still a little more complicated than that, though.
Like I said, there’s more to a password than length and symbol type.
Even something like cF*+@aXbIdFHje2vZiU-1 is less secure than if it were generated by a good PRNG.
D0@ndro!dsDr@3@m0f3l3ctr!cSh33p? is also insecure, though it might have been considered secure 4-5 years ago.
You see what I’m saying?
Then of course there’s hash algorithms and how those are used to authenticate the passwords themselves, etc.
You think that’s bad, a decade ago I had to use a government-run website that required passwords be exactly 8 characters
Its been less frustrating since I moved to a password manager
Unfortunately a lot of jobs require passwords and they use outdated security processes, forcing people to have the old fashioned “must have uppercase, lowercase, number, and special character & you have to change it every 3 months for no reason” passwords instead of the stronger (and less annoying) alternatives.
i signed up at mba.com and it wouldn’t let me use a password because it contained a semicolon which wasn’t on the approved list of special characters, and then - get this - because I tried too many times to create a password - locked me out because I had “too many failed attempts”
For those wanting to play this as a game, there is this wonderfully fiendish website.
https://neal.fun/password-game/
Rule 13 Your password must include the current phase of the moon as an emoji.
I got stuck on the chess one. Used to think I was pretty decent at the game. After a few tries I gave up and tried a few websites that claim to be able to solve it and none found the “correct” move.
Fifty fucking cabbages, the 2023 version
My cabbages!
Removed by mod
Thanks for introducing me to Piped!
My favorite, though, is:
types in password “Password incorrect” goes to reset password “please enter a new password” types in password “your new password cannot be the same”
That just means you entered it wrong the first time.
Sometimes it means the page checking the password is following a different ruleset eg. the main page is case sensitive and the change password page isn’t. Sometimes it’s stuff like the entered password is silently truncated to a fixed number of characters and because of that won’t let you log in. Sometimes it’s wierd character expansions being passed directly to the password checking routine (& or similar).
Fuck. I gave it a try for real this time and hit a permanent game over condition.
spoiler
Apparently you can overfeed Paul
Darn, I wanted to see what came next. Some of those rules were hilarious. But I’m not doing that all again.
That was my limit too!
Had to give up at rule 20 because I was using a phone.
Spoiler
As much
funpain as that was, highlighting with a touch screen is nowhere near fast enough to put out the fire.Would love to see a speedrun leaderboard for this, though.
I got to the “wordle” one before giving up. jesus lol, nice meme
It was crone btw.
wow, spoilers /jk
If a password input form asks any of these questions, consider the website or service compromised right from the beginning. The reason for this, is that it means they are not storing salted/hashed passwords and your password will be stored as plain text on their servers. There’s no reason for any limitations on a password. In the event of a breach, your password will be visible in any database dumped by a hack. Always makes me wince when a password form complains about password length, as it really should not matter. When you hash a password, it will be stored in the database at a specific string length;
Eg; using sha-1 hashing:
pass123 = 5f1e04b7fc8d7067346b77bdbb6a4d4f9f4abace28f15c2b265c710b120393b2 password321 = 8852ab05d5b32f9efd3dcbf69edcfd65464e64c8e5e8310239871e02380e81b3That’s just not true, all of these things can be achieved without saving the password as plain text
How is it not true? If a site is saying for example, “password must be less than 20 characters” – that is purely a limitation based on the size of the database field, which you can only assume it’s being adding to that field as plain text. A hash will always be the same length and password length would not matter.
I’ll keep my aswer short, but first of all, usually this format enforcement is done on the client before it is ever sent to the backend, there are many reasons to limit the maximum length other than string length limitations on the database ( not that I can think of many actual good reasons).
Second of all, the client should send the actual password to the backend (allowing you validate these same password requirements on your backend), not the hashed password, hashing the password on the client side would be no better than storing the password as “plain text”.
And never is the “plain text” password stored in any database, only sent over to the backend and hashed, every time you set a new password, or log in using an existing one.
Looks like someone’s been playing the password game https://neal.fun/password-game/
That game made me want to punch.
Lol, at this point just generate a password for me to save in my bitwarden.
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Because it’s much more fun to come up with passphrases like Correct Battery Horse Staple.
It’s a lot easier to remember that than #@?Zk23!nPw
You are not supposed to have to remember anything but your master password. :)
I’d rather try and remember than have a single point of failure for all my accounts’ security.
If the passwords are stored offline then I can’t get at them if I’m away from where they’re stored. If they’re stored online they’re not secure.
Some are online, but encrypted, with options to export the passwords in case the service goes down.
“Why should I trust them?”
Well, the software is open source, and regularly audited by people using it. Many password managers, such as Bitwarden (not sponsored, although I’d like to get a sponsorship) uses end-to-end encryption to secure the passwords so someone hacking the servers or a rogue employee can’t access anything, It would just look like random noise. You don’t have to know coding, you just have to trust that someone in the world will have the knowledge to inspect the code and report any suspicious code. Just regularly back up the passwords to a local file so you still have them in case they shut down.
Trying to remember passwords made me constantly stressed trying to remember them. A password made life much easier. Better than a single point of failure like your brain. One password is much easier to remember, and that one password can be as complex as you want, because that’s the only one you’d have to worry about.
Sincerely,
Someone who’s depressed af and constantly forget passwords
Encryption can be decrypted. A password manager encrypting your passwords is like saying your car has working brakes. It’s totally unsafe to even consider operating without but it doesn’t say much when it is there.
It’s not a matter of “why should I trust them” but “why should I trust them more than the system that already exists”. I get the appeal, but the hole is big.
If I forget a password I reset it. If I forget my manager’s password can it be reset? Is the reset option, if extent, susceptible to attack?
If an account gets compromised it could have moderate repercussions, but probably minimal depending on the account, with maybe a couple exceptions. If managed passwords get compromised that’s potentially everything. There has not, and likely never will be, an impenetrable system, so it is a possibility if not a concern.
