Summary
Australia has enacted strict anti-hate crime laws, mandating jail sentences for public Nazi salutes and other hate-related offenses.
Punishments range from 12 months for lesser crimes to six years for terrorism-related hate offenses.
The legislation follows a rise in antisemitic attacks, including synagogue vandalism and a foiled bombing plot targeting Jewish Australians.
The law builds on state-level bans, with prior convictions for individuals performing Nazi salutes in public spaces, including at sporting events and courthouses.
One year’s mandatory jail term for any “hate-related offenses” seems a bit far imo. Should be just a fine at least for first offense *on the lightest end, unless it’s some physical attack and stuff like that.
That’s basically a tax on not being rich enough to be a nazi, which… well.
Do you think the same about any traffic violation or all fines in general? We should throw people in the jail for a year, mnimum, because otherwise it’s just a tax on not being rich enough for the crime?
Come on now. I’m all for having tougher sentences on the high end for hate related offenses, but a mandatory minimum being year in jail for any such offense, even some dipshit doing a Nazi salute and nothing is else, is just too much. It’s like said, dipshit behaviour but hardly worth a year in jail. And it probably won’t solve the issue anyway. Just putting people in jail seldom does imo. Yanks have already tried that.
Are you equating doing a Nazi salute to parking in front of a fire hydrant?
They were saying that fines are just a barrier for the poor, so I was asking if that holds true for all fines. That was the actual point you missed.
But sure, in the sense that neither should carry a mandatory jail sentence for a year, they’re the same.
I would love to hear your suggestions for stopping people from being openly Nazis because nothing else seems to have worked so far.
Will you get rid of them entirely? No. Can you force them to shut the fuck up with their hateful Nazi sit if they want to be a part of society? I think this will sure help.
But my family tree’s lack of forks does give me a bit of an unfair anti-Nazi bias, I admit.
Not all “legal offenses” are crimes. Legal systems have categories for a reason. Got caught loitering in the act? That can quite simply be solved by just have you go back to pick up your trash. Some things should not be punishable with jail, some others should, nazism clearly belongs in the later category.
Lemme let you in on a secret:
Yanks don’t send people to jail to “solve crime”. They don’t want to “solve crime”. They fill jails to have a cheap abusable workforce. They’ve even come out saying it openly out loud. Why do you think it’s black people or homeless people 90% of the time?
If that’s what you feel makes a difference for my argument, let me ask:
“Do you think the same about any crime in general? We should throw people in the jail for a year, mnimum, because otherwise it’s just a tax on not being rich enough for the crime?”
Do you think people behind this think this will solve hate? I just don’t think this sort of mandatory jail sentences will do any good. To me it makes a lot more sense to have a wider scale in punishments. This just feels like it’s reacting a bit panicky into what’s happening in the world with more to soothe people’s minds than to actually do something meaningful to change things.
You’re playing into the paradox of tolerance. Don’t do that.
It’s nothing to do with paradox of tolerance to think a year’s mandatory jail time for a year is pretty ridiculous for any “hate-related offenses”.
I’m against in general of just throwing people into the slammer and hoping that fixes the issues. Punishment should fit the crime and some dipshit doing some Nazi salute isn’t worth a year in goddamn prison. Give them a hefty fine for first time, sure, but a mandatory sentence of a year for any such offense, just seems too far.
Why stop at jail time? Why not execute them?
Edit: the point is to consider what level of punishment is appropriate, not to actually execute anyone.
Pragmatic constraints.
What level of punishment is appropriate?
a paywall for a moral breach sounds like a horrendous idea
If you consider a fine just a paywall then do you feel like there should be jail sentence for all traffic violations too, for example? A bit ridiculous, imo.
A fine works if it’s a significant amount of the finee’s net worth, but because fines are not scaled proportionally to finee’s net worth (or even scaled at all) it’s my opinion that these things just work as a paywall, including things like traffic violations.
You definitely can scale fines for income. We have that in Finland for more serious traffic violations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine
I just don’t believe the severity of the crime here at the lowest end calls for a year in jail. A fine, a hefty one, would serve the purpose better.
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Yes I’m suggesting on being more lenient than a mandatory jail sentence of a full year for any hate-related crimes. Some are serious enough to warrant it but mandatory sentence of a year for any is pretty damn far.