• Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    As an American from Argentinian parents, let me put it to you this way.

    Would the US get over China taking Hawaii away from them? Especially if it’s just so they can control the oil rights in that area.

      • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        When exactly did Argentina ever control the Falklands though?

        The wiki page goes into detail. However, besides having their own people on the island at some points, they claim ownership via inheritance from Spain when they won their independence from Spain, and the Spanards had been on the island before anyone else.

        The U.N. actually agreed with Argentina, and asked Great Britain to give the islands back to them.

        • TheLurker@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The link literally shows Argentina made the claim after the British.

          The island has voted numerous times they prefer to remain part of Britain.

          Twice the Argentine government has declined the UK’s offer to have the matter of sovereignty heard by the International Court of Justice.

          Instead they choose to START a war over it.

          Just stop already. For some reason this topic is a brain worm for Argentinians. You all go batshit over it and lose all reason and perspective.

          • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            The link literally shows Argentina made the claim after the British.

            Actually they make a claim based on the fact that it used to belong to Spain as well, and they inherited it when they won their independence from Spain.

            The island has voted numerous times they prefer to remain part of Britain.

            And? Russia took over part of Ukraine and those citizens in the captured areas voted to stay with Russia.

            (I’m not saying that’s what happened with the Malvinas, just that voting alone does not make ownship right or wrong.)

            Twice the Argentine government has declined the UK’s offer to have the matter of sovereignty heard by the International Court of Justice.

            [Citation Required]

            Instead they choose to START a war over it.

            Agree with you on this one. Conflict was done for political reasons, and lives were lost.

            However, if one nation held land that another nation believed was there, how long would they wait while they seeked a diplocatic solution, before they tried another route?

            Just stop already. For some reason this topic is a brain worm for Argentinians. You all go batshit over it and lose all reason and perspective.

            Honestly, it seems like British get more triggered when honest debate on this issue happens.

            And you can’t honestly see how a nation would want islands that are 350ish miles away from them, and that they feel belongs to them for centuries, back? Truly?

              • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                But you’re not being honest, mate.

                I’m being absolutely honest about this. I can’t prove a negative, but I’m debating honestly here.

                You’re making up crazy comparisons to Ukraine, which have absolutely no foundation.

                /picardfacepalm

                Its not about any particular country (those are just examples). Its about if nation A can have its people on nation B’s land and then claim that land belongs to nation A. That’s all.

                  • TheLurker@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Cosmic’s argument is pretty simple actually. They support Argentinian claims to the Falklands and everything is irrelevant.

                    I have watch this arseclown post links that don’t actually support their claim, misrepresented the content of those links and just argue in bad faith because they want to prove their point and not debate the facts.

        • jimbo@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Unfortunately for Argentina, they got their asses handed to them by the UK in 1982, and practically speaking, might makes right in international matters.

          • Apollo@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Or perhaps fortunately for the Falkland islanders, who have consistently voted to remain part of Britain?

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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      1 year ago

      If the people of Hawaii repeatedly voted to be Chinese, I’d say maybe we should at least pay attention to what they want.

      • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        If the people of Hawaii repeatedly voted to be Chinese, I’d say maybe we should at least pay attention to what they want.

        Considering Hawaii’s history, that’s one hell of a statement you just made. You might want to revisit it, after knowing more of the history.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          1 year ago

          What does their history have to do with what they want today?

          Are you saying Hawaiians should be denied democracy?

          • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            What does their history have to do with what they want today?

            I’m not going to give you an education here about it, there’s plenty you can read about the history of the Hawaiian nation and the US.

            Lets just say that the wishes of the Hawaiian people in the past were not honored very well.

            Are you saying Hawaiians should be denied democracy?

            No, not at all. You really should read up on the history before continuing to assume that I’m saying things that I’m not saying.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              1 year ago

              Unless you can explain what the history of Hawaii would have to do with a democratic vote on whether to be American or Chinese, you can weave and bob all you want, but you have no point.

              If Hawaii was given the democratic choice of “be American” or “be Chinese,” the only people their history should matter to is the voters themselves.

              And I’m guessing you’re not Hawaiian, so it seems a bit paternalistic to speak on their behalf.

              • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Unless you can explain what the history of Hawaii would have to do with a democratic vote on whether to be American or Chinese, you can weave and bob all you want, but you have no point.

                If Hawaii was given the democratic choice of “be American” or “be Chinese,” the only people their history should matter to is the voters themselves.

                And I’m guessing you’re not Hawaiian, so it seems a bit paternalistic to speak on their behalf.

                You REALLY should read up on it at least a little, before you continue to berate me about the subject.

                Its not my job to educate you, but here’s one link to get you started.

                As I mentioned before…

                Lets just say that the wishes of the Hawaiian people in the past were not honored very well.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                  1 year ago

                  I see, so they shouldn’t be allowed to democratically vote on which country to be a part of because their wishes won’t be honored.

                  Still sounds paternalistic.

                  • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I’m not saying that at all. Please don’t put words in my mouth (again).

                    Go read up on their history, and then my comment will have context and you’ll understand it.

      • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        US would completely eviscerate any country that took over Hawaii.

        Yep, true that. And the Falklands/Malvinas Islands are allot closer to Argentina than Hawaii is to the U.S.

          • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Distance means fuck all.

            Do you believe China would be happy with Great Britain owning Hong Kong indefinitely, being right next to China?

            Do you believe that if China owned the Catalina Islands off the coast of California that the US would be okay with that, indefinitely?

            Do you believe that what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now has nothing to do with the land around Russia?

            If there’s one constant in world politics, it’s that a nation’s always considers the ground around their nation as theirs as well, or at the very least in their ‘Spear of influence’, and hence their’s to control.

            • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              Hong Kong was leased from China on a 99 year lease. The UK was required by law to return it to China, which they did.

              Unlike the Falklands!

              • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                I’m aware of the lease versus not situation. That is not what’s being discussed.

                Whats similar in both though are the citizens situation and which nationality they wish to be, which country they wish to belong to. That’s what’s being discussed.

                Your comment is days later, and I’m just repeating myself at this point, as I’ve already stated what I just stated above before. I think we’ve all said everything we can’t say to each other.