As someone with several close Russian friends, on of whom just had a baby, doing this would suck, a lot.
Most already can’t go to Russia themselves, this would cut them off from their families completely.
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That’s kinda really bad… maybe disallow tourist visas but still allow asylum seekers/emigrators. (Both use first visas as an excuse to leave russia)
Yes, average Russians must face the consequences of the war, there’s no point in shielding them. But this move will cost EU tourist money so it’s down to cost-benefit estimates.
As for other reasons, spies will have multiple passports. Russian oligarchs are sanctioned already. Russia is recruiting people inside EU and Ukraine for terrorist attacks, they don’t have to enter EU at all to do it.
Ah yeah, it will save so many lives and stop the war within 24 hours. I can’t even begin to describe how idiotic this is
Should have been suspended ever since the poisoning of litvinenko.
Or the terrorist attacks. Or funding right wing extremism. Or funding brexit. Or being slimy imperial fascists.
How about we arrest the Russian oligarchs’ children
Ah yes, the north Korean tactic of family punishment. Very liberal democracy of you.
“Won’t somebody think of the oligarchs” - Mao would have shot them, Lenin would have forcefully emigrated them to Siberia, I don’t think you understand how much better European cells are.
Hey look guys a tankie.
Yep that’s a massive security hole.
When I first read this, I felt, “yeah, fuck those guys” But thinking more about it, the elite Russians with actual power already have residency or citizenship in EU. Spies can enter EU without the tourist visa. This might end up just impacting the anti-Z Russians.
Meh, how useful is a tourist visa for an asylum seeker? I think that’s what we should support them with.
Very useful, ask any LGBT refugee from Russia or Belarus in Spain, Germany, Netherlands or almost any other EU country.
Do you need tourist visa to ask for asylum? All the people crossing border in Ceuta ask for asylums without visas. Once you crossed the border it doesn’t matter if you have a visa or not, you can request asylum. And I think Russia/Belarus/Macedonia/whatever will not stop you from leaving if you don’t have a EU visa. You will be able to reach EU and as for asylum without a visa.
It makes it much harder to infiltrate us. Right now our gates are wide open and barbarians are just pouring in.
This may be arguably the most fascistic thing I’ve read on Lemmy.
Anarchy79? Give me a fucking break.
Thank you for thinking a bit more than a regular reactionist. This ban will hardly help with EU’s “defense”, and it’s certainly not going to make an ordinary Russian angrier at their government because it’s too fucking expensive to go to EU anyway.
Yeah, some middle-class moskali will cry about it a bit, but above everything else it will make leaving Russia for people in danger more difficult. But yeah, it’s gonna give an illusion that EU finally does something decisive for Ukraine (cough-cough, >4.5 years of the invasion).
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a reactionist, whatever that is.”
Good. Fuck the russians. My grandparents always said “ryssä on ryssä vaikka voissa paistais.” Which means “a russian is a russian even if you fry them in butter.” They never forgot what the soviets did to our country.
This is just overt racism.
Poland and Ukraine also never forgets. And Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia, and
I have a couple Russian friends. They’re good people, hard working, ethical, considerate. Just like I have a few American friends who are good.
YES, there are shitty Russians, and shitty Americans. Hell, there are even shitty Canadians. But hating an entire country because of their government is just bigotry.
Judge people by their actions, not their government.You’re missing the point! We need these good citizens to help at the least start asking the question of what is happening and why. Yes, there two sides to every story and Russians constantly get presented with a different narrative that what we get in Europe and the Americas. Yes, there could be repercussions for raising certain domestically related questions in Russia. However, this is not a reason to not raise those questions like “Why is all our tourist visas cancelled in the Baltics!? Are we really doing something that could justify this?” This initiative is great for that reason. Heads up for the Overton Window. We must not accept a new normal where waging war on other countries is not a an unacceptable crime that needs the hardest imaginable punishment.
The government alone does not explain everything. There are deep-running cultural differences between Russia and for example Finland. It’s not like Russia would magically change if the government was replaced. Most likely it would eventually go back to being the country it currently is.
Just like the cultural issues in US won’t be fixed by replacing the president.
I guess it’s the same for every country.
Fins are some of the best people on the planet. Russians are some of the worst. The arithmetic isn’t difficult.
Bro if you get attacked by Canada you deny entry to Canadians. What’s not to get?
My own grandmother said the same and I understand why she said that, but in the end it’s just essentialist bs and xenophobia which we would be better off without in this day and age. Putin and his cronies are the only ones who will thank anyone who tries to keep his political enemies out of his reach.
YEAH! Fuck everyone! Fuck every person born in a wrong place! Or in a wrong family! Or with a “wrong” sexuality/gender/race!
Based at the start, fuck everyone who blindly serves their authoritarian government
And you feel good inheriting that hatred? There’s a big difference between the general Russian population (those who will be affected by this ban) and Kremlin.
Let’s be better than our ancestors.
Do you know the kind of generational trauma caused by rape, torture, dispossession and murder? Because that’s what I’ve inherited, and yes, as a result I don’t want anything to do with any russians.
Was it the kremlin who raped, tortured and murdered in Bucha, Irpin, Mariupol and other places in their current war? Or was it “normal” russians?
Seconded! Whole family for generations suffered under the fucking Russians. And here they come again, like the fucking mongol horde without the charm.
And where does this cycle of hatred end? Do you think the “normal” Russians (soldiers, prisoners, mercenaries) would do these things, like rape, if they didn’t believe either that you deserved it, or that you are not worthy of compassion? Where does this come from, you think?
And how does this translate to tourists? Do they share this perspective? Why do they travel to countries which they know support “the enemy”?
And where does this cycle of hatred end?
Let’s see. Maybe we could start with the russians not invading other countries and brutalizing their people? Or is your point that it’s us on the receiving end who are supposed to magically not hate the invaders?
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be angry, nor that they shouldn’t face repercussions for what has been done, but here we’re talking about banning tourists, i.e. people who travel out of Russia and presents a golden opportunity for two things: Perspective shift and escape. Does it help further the goal of our sanctions by saying “I hate you so I don’t want you around”? What that’s effectively going to do is deny them yet another avenue of perspective, and they will remain in a country full of propaganda reenforcing beliefs that their country and people are doing a fair thing.
And besides, it’s not like they aren’t facing prejudice in the aforementioned countries, and that they’ll have a nice time. Russian speakers are not liked over here, let me assure you.And let me be very clear: Russian soldiers raping moms and stealing their kids is not what I’m saying you shouldn’t hate. They deserve every gram of hatred. But like it or not, we’re not able to directly impose consequences nor deterrents onto the perpetrators from our position, unless we want to go in by force (that means war). So our next best thing is consequences to those who may influence them in one way or another, i.e. the general population. But is hating them a consequence? They don’t see that hatred if all they see are the walls inside their country.
The general population are still to be held responsible for what they directly or indirectly support, even by just being of the same nation. But is preventing tourism something that will make them think “this is my government’s fault”? That’s the question, and your (and many other people’s) hatred is making you blind.
It ends when they fuck off out of the country they invaded. Until then it’s open season.
Say your government invades Greenland, and I see you in my country after that, would sending you back to your country and banning you from returning make you stand up to your government? Or are you going to be like “they can hate all they want: they are wrong.”?
Edit:
Actually, if you would stand up to your government, what would you do? And don’t give me some “guns blazing” shit - we both know risking your life like that is both very ineffective and something you’d never do.
TIL Lemmy doesn’t actually mind xenophobia as long as it’s against Russians.
Would someone PLEASE think of the Russians?!
Of course. They live in a shithole. It’s not their fault where they were born.
You turn the other cheek while I reload my AK, then everybody wins.
Jim Gaffigan said “I’ve been all over the world, and I’ve learned that there are only two types of people: Good people…and Russians.”
