Reading about FOSS philosophy, degoogling, becoming against corporations, and now a full-blown woke communist (like Linus Torvalds)

  • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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    1 year ago

    I was feeling the last part had some more story behind it so I went ahead and found this:

    Seems like I’m a full-blown woke communist too

    • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Doesn’t read like he’s an actual communist, more insulting people (rightly so) that would call liberals communists.

        • Omniraptor@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          God I wish that were true but there are a LOT of people (well, conservatives) who are vehemently against wider society allowing cross dressing or medical transition. It’s not 90% :(

      • spitfire@infosec.pub
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think it’s that controversial unless you’re hardcore conservative. Realistically he just laid out the view of most of the Libertarian party. Nothing he said denotes woke or communist except for the part or him claiming to be one. I’d like to see the full context, because that woke communist comment probably wasn’t directed at Linus’ views

        • Keith@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          The communist part reads as sarcasm because he was accused of being one

    • agent_flounder@lemmy.one
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      1 year ago

      I’m definitely woke af. And proud of it.

      I have come to think that when profits are at odds with health, happiness, the good of society and humanity, then either a non profit foundation needs to be running it or it needs to be in the hands of the government—but a much less corrupt one. And I believe oligopolies need to be broken up and anti trust laws greatly expanded and enforced. Then we can deal with the oligopoly / plutocracy. We set a maximum wage (including all earnings) and tax 100% above that. Penalties for regulatory breaches include jail time. For corporations. With corporations reigned in, oligopolies and oligarchies crumbled, we can prevent regulatory capture and corruption. Campaign finance is abolished and it is paid for out of public funds. We abolish first past the post voting in favor of scientifically determined better alternatives to ensure voters actually have a variety of choices.

      Idk wtf that makes me except maybe a ranting lunatic lol

      • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        In my mind, “woke” has two meanings that apply to this context:

        • positive: aware of the hardships different groups of people might face
        • negative: overboard political correctness, cancel culture

        It’s entirely possible to be pro-woke and anti-woke at the same time because of this.

    • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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      I personally think communism especially Marxism sounds really good on paper. The problem is that just about every time it has been attempted things didn’t really seem to work like they are supposed to.

      Its like every state that attempts communism just ends up being a perpetual Vanguard state, and it ends up being authoritarian and terrible.

      I really think there are several good ideas in Marx theories, but the actual implementation of those theories needs some work to figure out how they should be incorporated without being corrupted and overtaken by tyrants.

      • clover@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        Capitalism didn’t appear over night. It took several attempts and iterations to get it anywhere near what it is today. Most modern theories on the implementation of Marxism focus less on centralized government authority and more on democracy in the work place, and eliminating 3rd party shareholders’ control. Much of the struggle with implementation of this, is that the existing financial structures aren’t set up to handle this type of thing well.

        • rq0_0@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          What we have today isn’t really even capitalism anymore. It is becoming something else. We don’t have free markets, for example, because large corporate players are not allowed to fail. Under a central banking system, the state can simply print money to fund its corporate protectorates while artificially suppressing interest rates to avoid paying any interest on the debt. And then we use tariffs and policy to pick and choose winners, suppressing competition. This is about as far from capitalism as one can imagine.

          • clover@slrpnk.net
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            10 months ago

            Can you point me to a time when capitalism did happen? Where governments and outside forces weren’t picking winners and losers in the market? In such a time what was the plight of the common worker? Did we see overwork, workplace safety, and child labor issues?

            Third wave communism doesn’t seek to abandon the “free market” (which is free within bounds), it instead favors democracy in the workplace. Where all members of the organization are employee-owners including ceos and middle management and the “Board” is dissolved into either a representative or direct democracy made up of employee-owners. In this way one increases the incentives for each individual to perform and see the company perform well. This also mitigates much income inequality by allowing the workers a say in the compensation of middle and upper management.

      • rq0_0@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I personally think communism especially Marxism sounds really good on paper. The problem is that just about every time it has been attempted things didn’t really seem to work like they are supposed to.

        Boy, that’s the understatement of the century. Not only did it not work, it often results in mass murder and the ushering in of a totalitarian regime.

      • Kühe sind toll@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        You’re right. Communism is like the greatest social form a society can possibly achieve. The Problem is, that humans are dumb and will always try to get the best out of it for themselves so the concept of communism is ruined by those people. It maybe is practicable in small “society’s” (your family as example) but fails in big societies like states.

        • anarchotaoist@links.hackliberty.org
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          1 year ago

          Yes, Communism fails to acknowledge human psychology and will therefore never work. People are individuals with self interests. This can never be controlled (without violence) by a socialist/communist society. The good news is you only need selfishness in a free market society. In order for people to get their needs met they need to offer value. Value exchange means all people are better off (on average).

    • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
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      I liked the take by the utterly clueless Polish guy in the comment. I think his complete lack of understanding of any context is quite typical of online political conversation, especially when semantics come into play.

      Also Linus did call for “Total world domination” (I have the tshirt).

      • Sneaky Bastard@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Yes of course, who doesn’t remember how woke Lenin created a woke revolution based on woke teachings of woke Marx and even woker Engels.

    • The_Jewish_Cuban [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      unfortunately I think this is just him saying he’s a “woke communist” if being a woke communist is atheism, women’s rights, and gun control. I don’t think he’s a marxist of any stripe it seems. However, I am willing to be corrected here. I’ve only seen this post regarding to him

    • nxfsi@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Guy’s Finnish. The chances of him being actually communist are pretty much zero.

      • chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        This might be a dumb question: what do you mean? I know very little about Finland, so I’m just genuinely curious. Are the Finns in particular well-known for being anti-communist or is it more like a geopolitical thing since they share a border with Russia?

        • teemuki@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          I don’t know where this idea that all Finns are anti-communist comes from. Finland had one of the strongest communist movements in Western Europe during the cold war. At the height of their popularity about one in four Finns voted for communists in elections. Card carrying communists sat as ministers in multiple cabinets, up to the early 1980s. Like many young people of his generation, Linus Torvalds’ father was a member of the Communist Party of Finland in the 1970s. And all this happened after Finland had fought against the Soviet Union in the 2nd world war.

  • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    The Linux to trans anarchocommunist catgirl pipeline is very real. The moment you move to Arch it’s already over.

  • ConfusedLlama@kbin.social
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    rant:

    I have been using Linux since 2006, a lefty and against the super-rich and big corporations since I remember (to the point of avoiding their products like the plague), also never having understood or accepted gender roles and other stupid traditional concepts, yet never turned into a communist 🤷

    It baffles me that so many people think that respecting gender equality, understanding the evil in big corporations and avoiding them, valuing community and being tolerant (except for intolerance) and against discrimination somehow equals communism… I say this because I’ve been called a communist by many people who know me, while I have always rejected it explicitly!

    /rant

    • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      Id recommend you reading “socialism: utopian and scientific” by Engels. Because to me you sound exactly like the utopian socialist of the past.

      • ConfusedLlama@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I can’t really say I believe in a specific model, but to my knowledge, and for the current version of our world, welfare states seem to be doing the least worse currently. But really, I think our world is kinda too fucked up right now to be able to have any good social-economic system (in terms of maximum equality and minimum suffering, I guess.)

        Ideally, I’d prefer no state, only local communities managing themselves (something like city states, maybe?) and their relations to other communities… but I know it’s just a dream, at least for the foreseeable future, considering the current realities and the ass-people in power. Because that would need many really peaceful, non-greedy and non-selfish people, which… well, never mind.

        P.s. Sorry for the pessimism, and I might be wrong of course, which I really hope I am.

          • ConfusedLlama@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Thanks. Maybe, kind of. My knowledge on the topic is limited, but I think communalism (or some version of it) could involve some form of loyalty to one’s ethnic group or community, which absolutely disagree with.
            Social responsibility: Yes. But loyalty, especially towards something ultimately meaningless such as ethnicity: No.
            My values are respecting individual choices, rights and well-being of others (which also entails some responsibility).

            • Prunebutt@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              I completely agree. However, as I understand, the tradition as it stems from Murray Bookchin explicitly condemns this arbitrary categorisation.

        • Not_mikey@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          local communities managing themselves (something like city states maybe?) and their relations to other communities

          Your describing a Soviet you filthy commie.

          But for real what your describing is communism as marx originally thought of it. The one example marx gave as a model for what communism would be was the Paris commune which adheres to a lot of what you said. Most leftist agree that that’s the end goal it’s just a matter of how to get there. Lenin originally pitched the Soviet Union as just that, a bunch of local councils(soviets) freely cooperating and making there own rules. He saw how the Paris commune’s openness and military indecisiveness led to it being brutally suppressed though and wanted an interim top down dictatorship and rapid brutal industrialization to handle this threat. The threat never went away though, first with the Nazis almost annihilating them then the u.s. pointing nukes at them, so neither did the dictatorship.

          Their end goal was still avowedly the same though, and communism, to me at least, is about that goal. Their are a bunch of different theoretical paths to it, and there’s tonnes of infighting as to which ones the best, but all communists agree that the commune/Soviet/city state should have all the power.

          • ConfusedLlama@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Thanks for the explanation.

            The problem is exactly the “how”, as you described. And personally, I don’t really have any idea, since all the possible ways seem to involve somehow contradicting that goal “temporarily” (by using violence, limiting individual liberties, etc.), which I don’t like. I think maybe over time, (a very long time, perhaps?) the way of thinking of human societies will slowly (and through a painful process) shift to that direction (and maybe not! who knows!).

            Either way, life is painful and world is cruel.

          • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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            Lenin did not seize absolute power out of some lofty ideal of protecting the workers. He was very motivated about reclaiming the Russian Empire and murdering any workers or separatists that were in his way. Even contemporary communists like Rosa Luxembourg recognized that. Lenin and Stalin had over 20 years to dismantle the state before the Nazis became a threat. Not to mention, the original plan was to ally with the Nazis! The leaders never had any interest in helping workers.

        • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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          That’s pretty similar to the social democratic system that they had in Sweden before the 90s. Many critical services were government agencies, such as the railroad, the phone network, and the pharmacies. Health care and rental housing were handled by the municipality or the county.

            • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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              1 year ago

              I’m sure that it could be argued that Sweden had Soviet influence, there was definitely a soviet-backed communist party in Sweden from 1917 until 1977.

              But at the same time, Swedish Social Democracy is a completely separate ideology from Soviet Communism, and the parties that implemented these “folkhemmet” policies were 100% hostile to the Soviet Union and any Soviet influence. Sweden has never had any system of communism, nor any USSR-friendly prime ministers or ministers.

              Specifically, Per Albin Hansson’s “the people’s home” ideology that he advocated for as prime minister was a reformist, anti-marxist form of social liberalism.

        • Gamey@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          I would say you are somewhere between arnachism and socialism with that view but I am no expert ether!

          • Prunebutt@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            Those two have big overlaps. “Libertarian socialism” used to be another term for anarchism.

    • agent_flounder@lemmy.one
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      Sounds a lot like me. That’s not communism, that’s just being a decent person. One that respects others and just wants everyone to live a good life without being the target of hate and harassment.

  • schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
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    Linus Torvalds is a “full-blown woke communist”? Citation needed.

    I have been a FOSS enthusiast since my preteen or early teenage years (mid-to-late 2000s), yet I am not in any sense a communist.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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        1 year ago

        The term you want is social democrat, which isn’t socialism but hey, it tries to like, stop people starving to death on the street, if only because it looks ugly.

      • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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        Nah literally anyone who advocates for basic human rights is a “full blown woke communist”.

      • anarchotaoist@links.hackliberty.org
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        Did you know the Scandanavian countries have more economic freedom than the USA! Its their saving grace. They also have many private roads. The early 20th c saw capitalist Nordic countries become very wealthy and store up sovereign funds. These funds were than blown dry in the later half of the century as they became more socialist. They have now abandoned many socialist policies and again adopted freedom. They do however still have high taxation.

      • The_Jewish_Cuban [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        unfortunately I think this is just him saying he’s a “woke communist” if being a woke communist is atheism, women’s rights, and gun control. I don’t think he’s a marxist of any stripe it seems. However, I am willing to be corrected here. I’ve only seen this post regarding to him.

        But Linux is programming-communism

            • I don’t think it has a meaningful effect. Libs call themselves socialists all the time. For every case you’re able to argue for socialism and not have people’s brains shut down, you get 10 “those tankies aren’t real socialists! Socialism is when you vote for food stamps and means-tested college subsidies”

        • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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          I think his point is that people who call things “woke communism”, in a negative way, have no idea what communism actually is. To those people, everything from the center to the left of politics is woke communism.

    • frezik@midwest.social
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      His dad was a straight up member of the Finnish Communist Party. He’s still alive, and is even a member of the European Parliament, but seems more liberal/centrist these days.

      Linus himself seems to be pretty mum on politics.

    • akulium@feddit.de
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      To me it always seemed like Linus Torvalds is mostly a pragmatist.

      Richard M Stallman on the other hand…

    • Metatronz@lemmy.world
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      I think the dates are more relevant than the software. COVID pandemic was probably more impactful here than Linux.

    • Keith@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      He made a comment sarcastically and replied to an accusation labeling himself as such

  • whou@lemmy.ml
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    I too just turned into a Marxist after finding out about Linux and software freedom in 2020 lol

    I think there might be more than a handful of us. Welcome, comrade.

  • icepuncher69@sh.itjust.works
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    Fine, but dont defend tyranical regimes. They are bad no mather who they say they read. They could could claim to be following the teachings of fucking Mr Roggers but if they have concentration camps then thats not utopic or very humanitarian in my opinion, specially if ther is some mad dictator in power with everything no matter how manny extra steps are in between.

  • M68040 [they/them]@hexbear.net
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    Part of how I got here involves reading an assload of textfiles from the '90s and growing disillusioned with the fruits of that optimistic '90s techno-libertarianism

  • tal@kbin.social
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    https://moneyinc.com/linus-torvalds-net-worth/

    How Linus Torvalds Achieved a Net Worth of $150 Million

    Red Hat and VA Linux went public, and since they acknowledged it would not have been possible without the programmer, Torvalds received shares reportedly worth $20 million. Before it went public, Red Hat had allegedly paid Torvalds $1 million in stock, which the programmer claims was the only big payout he received.

    He revealed that the rest of the stock Transmeta and another Linux startup awarded him were not worth much by the time he could sell them. However, in the case of his Red Hat stock, it must have been worth his while because, in 2012, Red Hat became the first $1 billion open-source company when it reached the billion-dollar mark in annual revenue.

    Whether he exercised his stock options is unclear, but the money he makes from the gains could be the reason why his net worth has continued to soar.

    Well, that’s one definition of being communist, I suppose. Myself, I think that it’s fairly safe to say that Torvalds is okay with private ownership of industry.