• queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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    3 days ago

    Okay, that’s about following the Party line and the strategy of democratic centralism. What the Party decides is what the membership must respect and uphold.

    I am not a member of the Communist Party of China. They wouldn’t want me anyway lol

    • WldFyre@lemm.ee
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      3 days ago

      i.e. taking uncritical moral positions and then denouncing any deviation

      What the Party decides is what the membership must respect and uphold.

      Hmmm

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        3 days ago

        It’s strategic, not moral. The Communist Party of China has 99 million members. Without democratic centralism it would just be a big club of communism fans, not a Party.

        Once there’s an agreed upon decision, every Party member must uphold it for the strategic advancement of the Party agenda.

        • WldFyre@lemm.ee
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          3 days ago

          You honestly think citizens should be publicly punished and shamed for purely strategic reasons? I somehow don’t believe that.

          every Party member must uphold it

          Sounds like a moral imperative to me tbh

          But honestly this is just more examples of trying to weasel out of hypocritical positions like evangelical Christians do. Change some words around and act like it’s a different thing even though the real world effect is the same, which is funny for a group that claims to deal in material conditions.

          “I don’t HATE you, I just think you deserve to go to Hell.”

          “We don’t denounce deviation because deviating is immoral, we denounce it because it would be bad game theory not to.”

          • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            You honestly think citizens should be publicly punished and shamed for purely strategic reasons? I somehow don’t believe that.

            I think Party members should be disciplined and forced to follow the Party line. Regular citizens who aren’t involved with politics shouldn’t be held to the same standards. If you want to be member of the Communist Party then you must subject yourself to the democratic center.

            They don’t really hold every single Chinese citizen to the same standards as Party members these days. It’s unnecessary.

            Sounds like a moral imperative to me tbh

            It’s strategic because the goal is to advance the Party agenda. A moral imperative is just saying it’s the right thing to do, but that’s not what democratic centralism is about. It’s a strategy to hold Party members to a Party line and advance the Party’s agenda.

            You’re trying to frame this as moralism but it has nothing to do with right or wrong. It’s about what works.

            • WldFyre@lemm.ee
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              2 days ago

              Lol exact same outcome but since I accepted Jesus into my heart wanted to advance the party agenda it’s okay

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                2 days ago

                Except if you look at China today it clearly worked. It’s an evidence based scientific approach to politics. No faith necessary.

                Meanwhile, religious people can’t prove anything and have no evidence for anything and have to take everything on faith.

                • WldFyre@lemm.ee
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                  2 days ago

                  scientific approach to politics

                  It’s not, because no approach to politics is. It’s not reproducible, and there’s no control. You can argue it’s logical, but that’s different.

                  Also, this means that literally any functioning state “clearly works” as well, many of which have been around longer than modern China. Any place that isn’t pure chaos is a valid approach to politics with this argument, and if you (correctly) change what you mean by “works” to be some other criteria, then it’s not a pure evidence based approach anymore since we’ve brought value judgements into it.

                  Politics can never be purely scientific because we have to make value judgements. Being purely “scientific” is what most communists criticize pure utilitarianism for.

                  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                    2 days ago

                    China isn’t merely a functioning country, it’s the fastest growing economy on Earth despite being backwards and feudal and colonized only a little over half a century ago. It’s an incredible and unprecedented achievement. You can’t ignore this.

                    And sure, politics can’t be purely scientific, because nothing human is ever pure science, but it is possible to use a scientific approach to figure out what works and what doesn’t. This is why socialists call their politics a science.

                    Liberals refuse to even attempt to make their politics scientific. They believe politics is just about doing what you think is right based on faith i.e. moralism.