Obviously Lemmy, Mastodon, Pixelfed, etc. are federated decentralized equivalent to their centralized counterparts, but what is the counterpart in the fediverse to TikTok? It is a dominant app for millions of people, and as far as I can tell the closest thing is Peertube, but isn’t that more of a YouTube equivalent? Does it not exist because the bandwidth and storage costs are just too great? Or because the algorithmic nature of content selection is inherently anti-fediverse in some way? Clearly many people choose to interact with each other this way, but it seems like a gap in the fediverse and I was wondering why.
As far as I know, no one tried to clone TikTok for the fediverse. But I think the inherent problem is the algorithm. TikTok isn’t like Youtube or any other social network, where you follow people. You have an algorithm that tracks everything you do and watch and then suggests you video based on their topics, less on the people in them. I guess it’d be hard to implement, as many in the fediverse are not keen about tracking.
Conceivably you could open source the algorithm, or even better, have a variety of algorithms to choose from with custom parameters.
In a similar vein, I’m not sure if anyone remembers Slacker Radio, but it was a competitor to Pandora/Spotify/etc. It had its drawbacks (hence why it isn’t around anymore), but I absolutely loved the amount of control you had when building custom stations. You’d first seed a custom station with a bunch of musicians you like, and then there were a number of parameters which allowed you to fine-tune the algorithm to a remarkable extent, well beyond what today’s music apps offer.
I’d love to get to a place where we have options other than just saying “welp the algorithm” and just giving up, I think that the ability to customize one’s algos would be a killer feature that the fediverse can offer which the major platforms generally won’t.
The inherent problem is money. Sites that store and serve text can be very cheaply run. Sites that store and serve video are expensive. The storage and throughput demands are much higher. In order to get videos to load quickly, you need a CDN. Nobody of average means can run a TikTok clone as a hobby.
But what all is needed for tracking? AI-based metadata extraction from the video and metrics of how long the user watched the video before swiping or rewinding or stuff? That can all be done at the instance level. I’d imagine the bigger issues is the engineering involved in the app content creation tools, and the costs of data storage for all of those videos and bandwidth for distributing them, something TikTok currently just foots the bills for. Arguably an open source equivalent wouldn’t have the privacy stigma around it, right?
Honestly, I think the cost of data storage and bandwidth would easily be the biggest hurdle. Video takes up loads more space than text or even images, so I’m not sure if it would be feasible for any volunteer entity to support unlimited free video uploading.
Srsly. Video hosting aint cheap.
There is Goldfish, which was started with beeing some sort of TikTok alternative in mind. But it’s stuck in a very early stage and doesn’t seem to be developed anymore. If I remember correctly the Admin started it as a practice for themself to get more into Activity Pub.
They have a Mastodon account and a github page, maybe you can ask them there if they plan to develop it further. And since it is open source and can be forked by anyone and everyone can contribute to it, maybe someone will be found who is interested in continuing to work on the project.On Goldfish’s github page I also found Vidzy by accident, where developement seems to be more active. However, I found no active instances so far where one could test it.
Peertube as you said is the closest equivalent as a video distributor. Technically a similar approach to Peertube would work by using both Torrents and Instance data storage. Now what makes Tik Tok so popular is its algorithm, which mind you, is a tiny wee bit manipulative. In future, Peer Tube might implement something like dedicated sections for vertical videos. But without a significant cultural shift, I’m not seeing an effective Tik Tok clone appear without a lot of noses being turned up.
using both Torrents and Instance data storage
IMO, anything based on peer-to-peer sharing is a nonstarter, not with the kind of video bandwidth demands that a TikTok or equivalent would put on cell phone networks. You might get it working on desktop, but I’d bet good money that the cell networks & Apple & Google would move to lock that s*** down ASAP.
I can see it happening at some point especially with all the alternatives but it’d be really hard to get that appeal especially with how some people within the fediverse view tiktok. You’re also gonna have a hard time in my opinion getting users from TiktTok over so you can’t really appeal to that crowd. I wouldn’t say its impossible but it’d just be really really difficult.
I mean network effects are real. You always have a hard time moving users over to a new network platform. Are you saying that anyone using TikTok right now arguable does not care about privacy at all so would be unlikely to see the value of federated decentralized apps?
Not really. The same reason why alot of social media is still incredibly successful even when they are actively violating your privacy; people just want something easy to use and out of the way. They don’t care at all as long as it works so when you try to give them an alternative, they might join but then see that no one is on their or is much more difficult and as such results in them hopping and then leaving.
But how is that a different problem than mastodon or Lemmy or friendica face? What makes TikTok different?
I am not trying to be condescending, but I get the feeling you may not be as versed in privacy matters. Those other social media apps require access to huge amounts of information about you and everything you do on your device. Location, location history, health and fitness info, contacts, browsing history, etc. Depending on what company we’re talking about, that info is used to generate detailed targeted profiles to sell to advertising companies, and possibly also to train in-house AI models. Lemmy doesn’t do that because it’s a community driven and hosted platform whose goal is not to sell the information generated by its users.
I think you misread the previous commenter. I think their point was: the assertion that nobody will leave TikTok despite its abuses is very similar to the assertion that nobody will leave Twitter for Mastodon, or Reddit for Lemmy, etc despite their abuses.
Yet, it is happening. Whether it will be a large or lasting migration to open, less intrusive platforms remains to be seen, but the fact that we are talking about it here, and not on reddit, would imply that it’s at least possible. The challenges and possibilities are similar.
But, I generally share the concern that the high cost of video storage and distribution is a major barrier to success.
No, I understand that.
My point is that I think TikTok has a user base that is far less likely to care about privacy, openness of platforms, etc. In my opinion, it’s an app that is built for and used primarily people that don’t care. You can tell them over and over about its privacy abuses, you name it, and they won’t leave.
Reddit and Twitter tend to have older and more often nerdier users that are more likely to know about/understand/care about these issues and react accordingly.
