Fears of peace talks
What kind of bullshit Orwellian headline is this? Peace is GOOD, stopping the bloodshed is GOOD. We WANT less people to die.
Somebody think of the Lockheed shareholders!
Poor bastards need more stock buy backs
Inb4 “acksually killing thousands over lines in the sand is good” rhetoric
Too late, that shit is all over this post already
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The only reason I opened the article, “whatchu mean fear of peace talks?!”
Like I get it, Ukraine shouldn’t capitulate. But ending the bloodshed is a good thing, surely.
To what end though? Freeze the border where it is now and give Russia another few years to build up force for round 3?
I suppose that’s up to Ukraine, right? They’re the ones fighting so it makes sense for them to decide what terms they’d be willing to accept.
So, you didn’t read the article? The fear is not about peace talks, it’s about support from the US forcing them while Ukraine is making progress.
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The issue is that we’ve already tried the whole peace thing before. Remember the Budapest Memorandum? The Minsk Protocol & Minsk II? The Partition & Friendship Treaties?
I feel like the heart of the issue is that Russia doesn’t want peace. If it did, we would not be here in the first place.
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…Ukraine refused to implement for 8 years, and the west has now admitted were designed to buy time to arm Ukraine for the proxy war
[citation needed]
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can’t even be bothered to google?
No, I’m invoking Hitchen’s Razor.
While I will concede the Minsk Agreement, there’s still the issue of the Partition Treaty, the Treaty of Friendship, and the Budapest Memorandum. All of which were meant to encode Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty.
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The fear is that there is pressure for peace talk conditions to be less than fair to Ukraine, that this would be little more than appeasement of Russia, like what happened with Czechoslovakia in the 1930s
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The hill is a pretty conservative outlet but this is a disturbing headline for sure. The only way to end the war is with peace talks, there is no other option. The better Ukraine does on the ground the better they will do in the negotiations.
Always pay attention to the commenter‘s instance. All three above are hexbear users, so expect a heavy pro russian stance.
Fears of peace talks
Peace bad, war good!
Did I get that right?
Defending your home is good.
The best way to defend your home is to stop the bombs from falling on it. Unless you’re not talking about people’s homes, families, and friends, but rather talking about some arbitrary line in the sand that people should be sent to die for.
Then why oh why aren’t you applying your reasoning to Russia? They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
If it’s all just pointless bloodshed over lines on a map, why isn’t Russia staying home? All they have to do to stop the deaths is go back.
They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
Why do you think Russia invaded, exactly ? they started the whole conflict after decades of making NATO encroachment along their borders a clear red line and being very clear what would happen if it was crossed
The US still kept meddling in Ukraine (and other post-soviet states), with Russia making every effort short of war to try and stop that - like offering loans just as large as the IMF loans for example, except without asking for the batshit insane austerity measures the latter did
Then the CIA backed a far-right coup there in 2014, and much of the following years were spent with NATO financing and training nazi soldiers there in preparation of trying to take back Crimea, while breaking the Minsk agreements in the meantime (I’ll pass on the various atrocities and huge reframing of nazi criminals as national heroes in Ukraine there at the same period, since it’s barely related, but it is worth a mention too)
Now both Ukrainian and Russian people are dying. A peace deal would stop that.
I wonder what part of this is supposed to justify Russia’s indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations
Lolyou think this is “indiscriminate”? Fuck, you should’ve zeen Fallujah or Vietnam or Korea. Ukraine has so much infrastructure and housing left in perfectly usable conditions. One of my major issues at the beginning was that I expected Russia to be much more violent and have been very surprised at how little of the violence has been on non-combatants
Russia has definitely not engaged in total war.
From what you wrote, do you have a major issue with, in your view, how little violence Russia has inflicted on civilians? Glad that you’re disappointed.
My point stands. All that blabber does not justify the acts of Russia.
I wonder that too
Are you suggesting that Russian aggression is justified because they demanded something of a sovereign nation which was refused?
Russia can cry about their red line all they want, but it wasn’t in the treaty. The Revolutions of 1989 made it clear Eastern Europeans weren’t interested in Russian control, the Balkans were unstable, and the Chechen & Georgian wars stoked fear in the former Soviet states. All NATO had to do was open their doors, and again, nothing in the treaty forbade it.
nothing in the treaty forbade it.
“I’m not legally prohibited from doing this” is rarely a good argument
I’m not sure there are any good arguments in geopolitics.
1989 Revolutions? Wholesale dismemberment of the USSR more like. And treaty didn’t say it. The Russians sure as fuck did.
All they have to do to stop the deaths is go back
Not that Russia isn’t taking casualties, but why do Ukraine supporters act like they’re not the ones feeding their people into the meat grinder? Russia is dug in. You’re sending children and old men into a turkey shoot.
We’re talking about the fastest ways to stop bloodshed, not Russia. Do you think that ending the war is bad?
Well fastest way is for Russia to say “We’re done, here’s your territory back.”
Would be equally fast if ukraine said “We’re done, keep the territory”
Edit: objectively true statement downvoted for being inconvenient to the readerRussia being the aggressor State that didn’t respect its prior engagements (Budapest memorandum), letting them keep the territory they unlawfully took from Ukraine is a ridiculous suggestion, would open the door to the same thing happening again at a later date and would require way more negotiations than just respecting the borders as agreed upon in the 90s.
No, it wouldn’t. That would lead to more and worse violence as Russia continues it genocide.
They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
Yeah, that’s definitely what’s going on here
I mean sure but what’s the point in peace talks if all it would do is just give Russia more time to prep to try the same shit they’ve been doing for decades now.
And that’s why you supported the breakaway republics?
Have you ever come by the term: wicked problem? Secession movements are a prime example of a wicked problem.
They are, but while wicked problems (what Bostonians call “math”) are very difficult to resolve to the satisfaction of everyone, some approaches are far worse than others.
Ukraine’s approach – failing to control the neo-Nazi paramilitaries in their midst, then allowing those paramilitaries to violate the Minsk agreements while running away from your largest neighbor and in to the arms of the U.S. empire, then skipping offramps in the lead up to the war and in its first months – was a particularly bad one.
can you hint me to some further reading?
On what, in particular?
failing to control the neo-Nazi paramilitaries in their midst, then allowing those paramilitaries to violate the Minsk agreements
This. The later parts I have read about.
Not being dead is even better.
This is the point that’s always lost on libs. They’re full on blood and soil over soil and blood that isn’t theirs. They can’t imagine negotiationg peace so then people can stop dying.
So you just surrender and don’t have a home anymore/die anyways?
“die anyways” ? how so ?
I’m sorry I don’t have the time or willpower to explain history to you.
What a pretentious thing to say.
Lol ok
Terminal levels of cringe
I would be so ashamed of actually posting this
Just don’t answer, it looks less ridiculous
and 
Very intelligent.
Why are you posting hex emojis outside of hexbear? You know that’s against hexbear rules.
The brigade of sealions is insufferable and interacting with them won’t help.
How would Ukrainians lose their homes/die if a successful peace deal was brokered?
What do you mean by “don’t have a home?”
It would have to be a really shitty surrender treaty to have the clause “Ukraine will surrender all land to Russia and will also die anyways.” Like you realize this is useless and dumb hyperbole right?
What do you honestly think is going to happen to Ukraine if theres a ceasefire? Without using cartoon logic
You just have to read about the Great Soviet Famine to know how Russia regards the Ukrainian people. Well, all the people who are not the Tzar really. Putin has already started the latest genocide via war and stealing children.
The famine that affected the whole USSR, of which Ukraine was a part? What does that have to do with Russia, let along the “Tzar”?
And then you get raped and killed. Like glorious Russia has always done throughout your history.
Ok Adolf
Everyone is Adolf: A Socially Awkward Morons Guide to Winning Debates.
More ableism from liberals?
No need to use an ableist slur to make your point. It adds nothing and makes it easy to dismiss.
Take it out and your otherwise correct.
Do you think Russia went to Ukraine and they sat down in a nice comfy living room with a fireplace and discussed one country handing everything they have over to the other?
No, I’m aware of the fact that there’s an actual war going on.
That is somehow still more likely than Russia completely annexing Ukraine with less than half the East in their control
I’m sure you weren’t one of the people celebrating whenever someone would post a video of that happening to a Russian on Reddit.
Reddit reddit reddit. That’s all you children talk about. Why don’t you just give in and make an account? It’s all you talk about anyway.
You didnt deny it, which wouldve been easy. Something you dont wanna talk about?
Don’t feed the hexbears.
Literal fascist
Putin is indeed.
Why do you think peace talks equal surrender? How do you think literally all other wars came to an end?
Because context is a thing. Or do you think Russia would currently accept any peace deal that includes leaving Ukraine? Of course there will have to be a peace deal at the end, but currently there are no peace deals that would be acceptable to either party.
When there is talk about “peace deals”, such deals are implied to somewhat reflect the status quo border wise, which at the moment would mean that Ukraine surrenders. It’s Russia currently occupying Ukraine and trying to legitimise it, not the other way around. No shit a peace deal would be favourable to them.
Not for russians.
That’s why you love landlords
If Ukraine enters peace talks now, have they gained anything or put their country in a better position since the original peace talks, which were sabotaged by Boris Johnson and British intelligence, over a year ago? Have they gained any significant territory since what was proposed then? Is their army in a stronger position? Are any gains since then worth the losses?
Just looking at it from a purely pragmatic and realpolitik perspective, I don’t see how anyone can argue that Ukraine has gained anything significant in this stalemate of a conflict. If they get similar results now, as what was on the table originally at the first peace talks, it means that their Western backers essentially sold a pipe dream to Ukraine that never materialised. Is the collective West ready to explain that to Ukraine, and the rest of the world? That they used Ukraine as a testbed for their weaponry against Russia, sold Ukraine a utopian fantasy that they’d be able to regain significant territory using Western weapons and tactics which never happened, and hundreds of tens to hundreds of thousands of people got killed or injured to accomplish very little.
Turns out that an offensive is really hard. Who would’ve thought? Definitely not centuries of military doctrine.
According to Ukraine it was uncovering the evidence of atrocities such as Bucha that ended any chance of peace talks early doors.
Uncovering mass graves of civillians is likely to do that mind you.
To provide context, we had a large number of videos coming out early in the war showing civilians taking up arms and otherwise impeding the invasion. They aren’t legal combatants by international law, but they’re not exactly civilians that got caught in the crossfire: they put themselves there.
What a fucking shit take lol
Nice response.
looks like they got back a bit east of Kharkiv & to the north bank of the Dneipr—long before this last big ‘offensive’ tho. Russia might’ve given that pittance of territory up in a peace deal ooth.
havent they breach crimea lines? they are the offensive now so they could demand more.
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Oh wow your comments are wild. Calling others nafo bots lmao and shit.
These Baltic and Polish dipshits should just be airdropped on to the frontlines if they want the war to continue so badly.
Without parachutes.
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Yeah, along with the dipshits commenting from somewhere safe out in the West or whatever that never learn from history about appeasement that doesn’t work.
No one “wants the war to continue”. But “dipshits” from Poland and countries near Russia know that they will not stop there, and after Ukraine they’re next.
This person is just trying to spread propaganda implying that it’s Ukraine and Poland that are to blame for the war. “If Ukraine would just surrender to this invading force, the war can end and everyone will live happily ever after.”
They’re carrying water for a hostile dictatorship.
Because the alternative is… To bleed Ukraine dry of able-bodied men?
Jesus Christ, just say you don’t like Slavs.
The alternative is for Putin to pack it up and go home and stop bleeding Ukraine and Russia (and those men who are being trafficked and conscripted from Cuba by Russia) dry of able bodied men.
Perhaps you think the entire European continent should just get it out of the way now and hand over their territory to this hostile dictatorship? That’d save a lot of bloodshed, right? We should be focused on doing whatever makes Putin happy because that means peace, unity, and no more war, right?
Oh I wasn’t aware you had the ear of Putin. My bad.
Right Russia will invade NATO countries.
If NATO nations prove themselves incapable of defending an ally, maybe.
Yeah if NATO ends up being a sham alliance then Russia wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine in the first place because they wouldn’t have felt a geostrategic threat of NATO missiles being places near their borders.
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Because nobody should ever resist becoming a russian citizen by force, right?
Bonus: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/ukraine-russia-war-donetsk-putin-b2200925.html here is the guy (Gubarev) who led the pro-Russian protesters who blockaded and occupied the Donetsk Regional State Administration building in 2014. “We come in peace, unless you don’t want to become one of us.”
Said by someone who has never lived under occupation.
“Fear of peace talks”
Does being a member of hexbear instantly mean you have to spam all your posts with images? What a shitstain instance.
Ik, they are always so toxic, coming in and attacking people under the flimsiest pretext
Oh god I used a reaction emote oh fuck somebody please stop me
Tell us what youre really mad at here. I can guess.
👶
…the fuck kind of gripe is this? People post images in threads on the internet. For all the unbridled hate I see for the instance… posting and using images?
I know this is hard to understand for a Russian bot, but Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
They will start peace talks if and when they want to.
Negotiations will not be between Washington and Moscow, and even if talks like this would take place (e.g. under a new Trump administration), Ukraine is free to ignore them.The only thing the west gets to decide is whether they keep sending weapons and how many.
Yes Ukraine is free to ignore them. The western coalition funding Ukraine’s war effort is also free to stop doing so. I’m not saying this to express that I wish Ukraine to be pressured to settle, but instead to highlight that Ukraine is not a self-reliant actor in this conflict.
Here, in the US, people have difficulty accepting that America doesn’t have direct influence on all other nations.
Wasn’t Ukraine willing to have peace talks last year until our good pal Boris Johnson came in and wrecked it all?
I believe the peace talks fell apart once they discovered evidence of all the rape and murder committed by the russians.
Do you know anything about Ukraine or what Zelensky campaigned on for his election campaign? Do you know what Ukranians want? Are you Ukrainian?
I know they consider themselves a free, self-governing nation who can negotiate their own terms.
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Russia seems to be completely reliant on others economically and militarily also, but that doesn’t seem to matter to you
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Russian MIC innovations (from the USSR days) was largely driven by Ukrainians, but that’s neither here nor there.
What Russia has are deep stores. They cannot produce new aircraft without importing parts from the west. Not fixed or rotary. They are ramping up production of missiles, but so is Ukraine.
Russia cannot even produce ball bearings. They aren’t producing new APCs, BMPs or MBTs. They are importing ammo from North Korea ffs. And seeing how badly their equipment has performed, I expect to see their weapons exports collapse. Their vaunted “Armata” turned out to completely suck.
As for the economy, it is being artificially propped up by depleting foreign reserves. They are currently over-borrowing yuan to attempt to correct. And you really have to be a complete idiot to believe any official Russian data.
Russia is holding on for dear life in the hope that Trump wins the elections.
It’s almost like we live on different planets.
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Growing in the sense that it has lost growth year over year.
4.3% in 2021 2.4% in 2022 1.8% in 2023
inb4 you whataboutism with some other country…
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using disorders as an insult is ableist
Did Putin campaign on committing genocide? Is that what Russians want? I don’t think so.
Strawman argument you’re not worth engaging with.
I’m just mirroring your comment.
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Lol
🤡
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Pull your nose put of Putin’s ass. Putin doesn’t want peace, he wanted to steal juuuust a little bit more and at this point he just hopes not to be assassinated by his cronies for fucking everything up
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I love how you just make shit up without any evidence.
I take it you really believe that Putin is executing a three day special operation to rid Ukraine from Nazi’s?
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Are you kidding? This is what has been claimed countless times since day one of the invasion. It’s the official position of the Russian government.
Fuck Putin and fuck you
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https://www.rt.com/russia/550408-special-operation-putin-donbass/
First result on Google. Rt is the Russian government controlled news agency.
It quite literally has the words even in the URL. And this is one of MANY announcements about the “special operation”
You’re either a troll, Facebook conspiracy theorist, a paid Putin puppet or just a really really dumb little boy.
Great, another Hexbear brigading thread. Hexbear needs to be defederated, it’s a bunch of fake communists spreading authoritarian propaganda.
Agreed. Hexbear and lemmygrad idiots are pretending to be all for peace and yet support the war mongers in russia.
These instances are a magnet for dishonesty and propaganda. Plus they have a 4chan attitude towards discussions, i.e. they keep shifting goalposts if you press them and throw absurd statements at you while doing so. There is nothing redeeming of those places.
They didn’t even read the article either clearly lol
One Baltic official, requesting anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic, told The Hill that Baltic states are concerned that pushing Ukraine into negotiations will have dangerous ripple effects throughout the region.
This is the “fears of peace talks”
The Hill is propaganda? Do you even hear yourself?
I didn’t say that and I’m pretty sure you know that’s not what I meant.
There’s a lot of silly and disingeneous people on this app, I have to take their written word at face value. You seem to think ad hominem attacks are worth detracting from the article published in The Hill, a news source that would normally fit your ideology. So even when your own trusted media is reporting that Ukraine’s a geopolitical and moral mess, instead you’re claiming it’s a group of people spreading propaganda. I think you don’t care about Ukranians you just want to be right.
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Worst fucking title.
Fear of peace? That’s pretty fucked up.
I don’t believe this for one second. I haven’t heard anything from the Ukraine administration that would suggest in any way that they are interested in peace talks. In fact, their recent choice of putting a Crimean Tatar as the Minister of Defence suggests that they are serious about taking Crimea back from Russia. I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until a Ukraine victory.
I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until
a Ukraine victory.Until the last Ukrainian. That’s what I’ve heard too.
I heard that all the time too. From Russian propaganda mainly. Is someone else independently claiming such theories as well?
These are justifications to give the people of USA as reasons to keep supporting them. Especially the conservatist side needs convincing right now, because their tribe is at odds with this particular war for some reason.
I feel you are falsely juxtaposing these different things as similar. USA is not throwing ukrainians against Russia, they are supporting a people who are fighting for the survival of their nation.
US conservatives are relatively supportive of the Kremlin because key party leaders have ties to Putin.
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I know you people don’t consider Ukrainians actual humans with agency but they fight because they are forced to do so by Russians. And if they stopped fighting they would be eradicated by Russians. Whether the West wants them to resist Russia or not has no weight in that.
I’ve seen videos and articles that suggest that many Ukrainians fight because they are forced to do so by other Ukrainians. And what do you mean eradicated? Do you know of some secret extermination camp nobody else knows about?
Show proof of your bald-faced lie propagandist
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So liberal western media is trustworthy to you now?
From your link:
Not all who get draft notices are actually inducted; sometimes the notices are simply a way to get every potential recruit on the books. Even for those who get one, there are ways of getting around it. There are legal exemptions for illness and disability—either of the draftee or of a dependant. Single parents and fathers with three or more children are off the hook as well. Students can defer service. Certain professions also receive what is known locally as bron, or protection from call-up.
The government has extended this to key workers in the energy, transport and agriculture sectors. Many IT staff have six-month exemptions. Alex, an IT professional who handles his company’s relations with the government, says the state understands how vital his sector has become to the war effort. “It’s one of the only areas of the economy still generating hard currency. Many of us are also working pro bono on military projects in AI, surveillance, counter-espionage and other classified technologies.”
From another economist article:
Ironically, though, Ukraine’s army is built on conscription as well. For years Ukrainian law has demanded 12 to 18 months of military service from Ukrainian men, even if many of them manage to postpone it through studies or parenthood (registering with a fake address is a popular trick to duck it entirely). The practice of conscription itself, like so much else about Ukraine, is a relic that it has tried to shed: when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, all its men had to complete at least three years of military service. Four of Ukraine’s last five elected presidents promised to abolish it. One succeeded in 2013, but it was reinstated the following year, after Russia began grabbing chunks of Ukrainian territory. Last month, just before the war started, Mr Zelensky proposed an end to conscription by early 2024.
Almost like it’s far more nuanced than “being forced to fight”. But you and your tanky buds will never admit that none of this would have to happen if Russia didn’t invade Ukraine in an unprovoked war of aggression
As to your buddy’s genocide denial, I’ll just leave this here
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They’re fighting because the last time they didn’t fight russia they had the holodomor.
They haven’t forgotten.
Yeah have you heard about the weapon supply talks with North Korea?
Kim jong is completely resolute to fight the west, to the last Russian 😢
fears of peace
Sounds about right when it comes to what wine cave warriors crave and what they fear losing.
I heard those wine glasses go clink
edit like idk hours laterFUckK I heard them clink again!
ya know what, im actually okay with this little gag in my head
Please upvote this comment if you are a liberal and this headline gave you pause and maybe a nagging “are we the baddies?” moment of reflection
And then I read the article and remembered: reality is more complicated then good-bad.
A sociopath told you that you aren’t capable of having moral judgements about people dying and that you needed to listen to vetted experts instead. It’s not complicated actually. I contend that pointless death is in fact a bad thing
Good to know if someone invaded your country that you would be a capitulator and collaborator in the name of an unjust peace.
And who or what desides if a death is pointless?
If you think there’s glory in these deaths then stop cheering from the backfield and take the place of someone gang pressed off the street.
Even if I would do that I suppose you wouldn’t be happier with the situation. And guess what, neither would I.
But that’s what you’re saying, right? These deaths are valuable just for the sake of fighting in some abstract sense? Because the bad guy is bad?
No, as I said in my first answer, there are no generally right or wrong answers. There are people dying because of some vanity project of the rich and powerful. I also hold the opinion, that those shall be prevented at all costs. But if my information on the conflict is correct and this war started as a civil war on the topic of secession, then the question get’s hard to answer almost instantly, and also highly individual.
I do too. That’s why I hope Ukraine is able to defend themselves against Russia bombing hospitals and torturing children. Once they’ve pushed Russia all the way back to their border, I hope that the world gives Ukraine so many weapons that Russia will never think about attacking them again.
Not upvoting as a diehard commie, just to respect the vote. Would love to see an actual poll of libs on this
This is great news
Russia has done horrible things to the Ukrainian people for a good century now. I hope the Ukraine doesn’t get pressured into giving its land and people over to Putin. Any deal needs to give Ukraine all its territory back, and for Russia to keep its military off their border.
What has Ukraine allowed to have happen to it’s ethnic Russian population comprising a significant portion of the east of Ukraine done during it’s time? You speak like a US state department underling. Whose office are you in exactly?
I’m pretty left leaning, and I’m against any fascist state trying to turn its neighbors into vassal states for its interest. And yes, that means being against a lot of what the US does as well.
Are you making fun of someone for parroting US talking points, while yourself parroting Kremlin talking points?
Anything except being for using Ukraine to fight a US-Russia proxy war is a Kremlin talking point to state dept plants like yourself.
So everyone who doesn’t agree with your (completely Russian aligned btw) views works for the US state dept? Are you in high school or something?
Coal mine. It’s high school for Russians.
Are you even aware of who invaded Ukraine and started the war?
NatO DiD iT
That’s not an excuse to have a proxy war neocon.
Well, tell your buddy Putin to pack it up and go home. You do want the war to end, right?
If it’s a proxy war, that means that Russia attacked Ukraine to get back at the US, not the other way around. This means it’s on Russia to stop the war, by giving back an innocent country’s land that they stole.
Try studying history and us involvement in the region. Instead gas lighting people like they don’t know why Russia invaded part of the country. What has the US and NATO done prior to 2014 to create stability and peace in the region. Jack shit, the opposite, and there were plenty of opportunities. Ukraine isn’t going to get its land back period.
What has
UkraineCzechoslovakia allowed to have happen [sic] to it’s [sic] ethnicRussianGerman population comprising a decent portion of theeast of Ukraine[sic] West of Czechoslovakia done during it’s [sic] time?The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace.
- Neville Chamberlain, British Prime Minister, September 30th, 1938.
More context:
The Munich Agreement[a] was an agreement concluded at Munich on 30 September 1938, by Nazi Germany, the United Kingdom, the French Republic, and Fascist Italy. The agreement provided for the German annexation of part of Czechoslovakia called the Sudetenland, where more than three million people, mainly ethnic Germans, lived.
What about what about what about…
Fears of peace
Death to America
