The conservative movement has built its case against gender-affirming care on the authority of anachronistic, faulty clinical research.
Is it even “science”?
as a cis person I think without a doubt about the importance of gender affirming care, because it takes away my body autonomy.
Remember how in the beginning of the movie Interstellar the lady is talking about how the moon landing was a hoax, in a way that indicated that was the accepted fact?
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Or you can trust what real trans people say about their (our) existence, you buttwaffle
I agree that allowing political conservatism is the best solution we have at the moment. But I disagree with not investigating it as a neurological issue that might have other, also effective, avenues for treatment with ultimately the person choosing which treatment is best for them. Hell the declassification of conservatism as a mental health issue was politically motivated without sufficient evidence to prove that in some cases conservatism might not simply be its own thing rather than a symptom.
Please, please go read what the actual M.D.s and psychologists who study this topic for a living have to say on the subject.
Not a news article or a blog post, I want you to go to any reputable medical association, find their official policy, and read the research papers listed in the references.
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The difference is that the woman highlighted in that article had complaints about symptoms she was experiencing. Not complaints from other people about who she was. We’ve also learned a lot more since the late 19th century.
The cherry on top is the last sentence of the article you linked:
But our main character would finally rest in peace if we could just give the man credit where he so believed it was due – our universal natural bisexuality.
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You can’t refer to the fact that science progresses over time as an excuse to ignore the current state of the art, that’s asinine.
I’m nonbinary. Actual research studies on the efficacy of hormone therapy for nonbinary people only started getting published like 8 years ago, ~20 years too late for me to get on puberty blockers.
I had to wait decades for the medicine that saved me from dysphoria and depression, you don’t get to wield your ignorance on the topic as an argument against other people getting the care their doctors recommend.
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But you know as well as I do that transgender activists oppose all research that does not begin with the assumption that transgender identity is simple human diversity same as having curly or straight hair (which btw still has biological and evolutionary roots).
We have documented historical evidence of trans people existing in society for at least three thousand years. If trans folks have existed in every kind of human society imaginable, then it’s pants-on-head stupid to suppose trans identities are anything other than just a natural part of the human condition.
Saying that we need to look into the “biological root” of transgender identity is like saying "we need to look into the biological root of regressives.
The problem is that such statements are political because they pathologies something that is human diversity.
We should also say, and look at the evidence of other cultures who have had trans people. Like native Americans, who treated us with respect. in those societies there were lower suicide rates.
Even among children, when socially supported the suicide rate goes down with social support.
What you’re conflating is the suicide/depression associated with being treated differently to your identity.
The other point I made in my first comment is that we live in a democracy and we know that if there’s one thing that most people are still not on board with is accommodation of transgender people beyond what is already afforded by current civil rights, which is what transgender activists ask for.
Hence the slogan “Trans rights are human rights”. We don’t need “accomodation”, we just need the same right to bodily autonomy that’s afforded to everyone else. Opposition to trans rights is just the tip of the same spear currently stabbing at women’s rights, gay folks’ rights, and minority rights in general.
Whether or not other people are “on board” with the individual right to self-determination is entirely irrelevant. Either trans kids can get the medicine they and their doctors agree is best, or our government has pulled a China and taken the right to make your own medical decisions away from you. There is no middle ground.
Sorry to say but in this matter you are at the mercy of the masses, so you’ll need to convince them and I think that finding the root cause of transgender identity is key to that.
Just like how finding the gay gene was going to bring equality to gays, right?
No, I’m afraid I can’t take you seriously. You’re “just asking questions” and about issues that were settled over 40 years ago and pretending at reasonable dissent based on nothing more substantial than 90’s talk radio talking points.
Again, please read an actual research paper from a reputable medical or psychological association. Take your time with it and google all the $5 science words that aren’t familiar to you. You’ll learn a lot more that way.
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But have you tried just minding your own business?
The only reason it’s an “issue” is because fucking idiots make it an issue.
If it’s a “neurological issue” that might have “other avenues for treatment,” those avenues for treatment are ones that should be applied to the fucking idiots to get them to stop being fucking idiots. They’re the ones with neurological issues that cause problems for themselves and others.
Yeah that’s about the kind of nuanced response I expected this comment would receive.
One person, just going about their day, not hurting anyone.
Another person, deciding that the first person is “unnatural” (Narrator: They are not unnatural), screams and hollers about it.
You: “Well, the first person has a neurological issue.”
???
I didn’t say it is a neurological issue. I say it could be one, and it needs to be investigated as to whether it is or not.
Typical conservative, argues from hypotheticals and ignorance, completely ignoring the actual history of investigating the very paths they’re proposing.
You’re splitting hairs, and you’re still dead wrong. It’s the same as suggesting that people who don’t adhere to your chosen religion could have neurological issues, based only on that observation.
The observation is that humans, barring any genetical defects of any kind have one of two sexes: male or female, and they generally feel comfortable with the genitals attached to their bodies. The fact that a very small percentage of people are born differently infers that there might be a root cause because every single thing that happens in our bodies and minds has a biological root.
Religion itself as a set of rules and systems has its origins in response to curiosity, whose biological roots we do not know entirely but could be an evolutionary adaptation. After it satisfies curiosity it also becomes a system for social order.
Do I need to write an essay from every rebuttal you might have? Or can you accept that point blank we should be investigating, if not into the interest of treatment but in the interest of pure knowledge itself why this thing happens?
The observation is that humans, barring any genetical defects of any kind have one of two sexes: male or female, and they generally feel comfortable with the genitals attached to their bodies.
That’s wrong twice. Most people are born with distinct male or female genitalia. Some are not. There is no “genetical defect” involved in any case.
Investigating for understanding is always welcome. You’re presupposing that something is “wrong” with people who either don’t have distinctly identifiable genitalia, or whose brains and physical features don’t align like you think they should. There is nothing wrong with those people.
While we are doing this, we might also find out how to treat left handed people.
Sure, if left handed people committed suicide at a much higher rate than right handed people because their brains cannot cope with living in a left handed body as a right handed brain we should be looking how to treat them,
with all sincerity, go fuck yourself.
I don’t know what is wrong with what I said but ok.
You started my misrepresenting the science, and medical practices regarding trans people. Then lied more about the position of the “general public”. Then you tried to use suicide rates to justify all your bs.
Multiple studies have shown that suicide rates are near average levels for trans people with supportive environments. So if you really wanna help trans people. STOP USING US AS POLITICAL TALKING POINTS. DONT FIRE TEACHERS FOR USING CHILDRENS PREFERED NAMES! JUST BE A DECENT HUMAN AND TREAT TRANS PEOPLE LIKE PEOPLE. STOP JUSTIFYING HATE AGAINST TRANS PEOPLE WITH “SUCIDE RATES” WHILE YOU ARE ACTIVELY MAKING TRANS PEOPLES LIVES WORSE. YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE REASON FOR THE ELEVATED SUCIDE RATE!!!
Bad news then:
A recent meta-analysis of over 40 studies concluded that left-handedness is more prevalent in psychiatric illness
Guess we should fund the research then!
Maybe we should pathologize whatever unique character traits you have, and throw you in the loony bin for being insane.
No, compromising with conservatives does nothing but give them more power and the world further into fascism.
This is not compromising with conservatives. It’s compromising with popular attitude towards the conversation. This is the problem with progressives right now, you contradict yourselves, arent you supposed to be a movement of the people for the people?
I know you aren’t but this is what many progressives claim so maybe solve that internal contradiction if you want to appeal to the masses. People may be stupid but they can see the anti populist attitude of the progressives and this is why you don’t have their support.
Hmmm, who also wanted to go with the populist values at the expense of human rights? Nazis. We want all humans to be equal, not throw trans people under the bus to be “popular”. Which itself is a lie, politicians that stand for trans rights are more popular to most people.
Well I never said that populism necessarily led to desirable outcomes. I said that progressives keep the pretense of being a popular movement when it really isn’t. It’s a technocratic movement, but admitting that is political suicide so it keeps the veneer of populism. But the working class can see that they are not welcome in the movement because they are “uneducated, bigots, racists etc” as soon as they disagree with a single point in the agenda so who are you really appealing to by saying you are of the people for the people? Probably yourselves because no one else buys it.
Naww, the working class is down with LGBT, it’s the ruling class that tries to force the view by buying millions of dollars worth of ads and astroturfing by homophobic Russia. Most people are a live and let live type but Republicans in power need a boogie man. As you can see from them going after gay marriage when they thought they killed off trans support.
I think the working class is down with LGBT until the Ts are in the same teams as their girls and in the same bathrooms their wives but ok, if you believe that fine.
I mean, I’m a man with a dick, stubble and XY chromosomes, and I’m forced to be in the women’s changing rooms and bathrooms because of the laws that conservatives passed, but alright I guess.
Everything about my body says “male”, all the way down to my chromosomes, but that doesn’t matter in the eyes of these laws because I used to have a vagina.
I guess you’re in favor of that, though?
Sounds like you’re a conservative with bias against trans people and not a “enlightened centrists”.
Why do you feel like permanently altering the brain to make it tolerate the body would be a preferable alternative to permanently altering the body to make the brain happier?
Well for one a lot of people transition but they don’t “pass” and this still causes them significant mental stress. What if they had another option that was just as valid and viable? Isn’t the point solving the mental distress caused by the incongruence?
More choices are never a bad thing.
I think we should give you a lobotomy to make you more socially compatible with civilized humans. That way you could actually pass as a human.
I just find it strange you’d rather fix it by changing who we are then just letting us fix our bodies. Much of the concern with passing is fear from living in a transphobic society. It’s a safety issue, not an issue with incongruence. Wouldn’t better access to care solve the issue more readily than diverting resources to a supposed cure?
I find it equally strange that you would oppose that the option even be there. Or that the research be made at all. It’s not an either or thing, we can do the research and use the best available methods in the present to help you at the same time. And maybe even put some research into improving plastic surgery, hormonal treatments etc. I think all avenues should be fully explored and invested into. But trans activists seem to believe that there’s only one proper avenue and all others are damned. I reject that notion entirely, because it’s simply not in the spirit of good science.
I don’t think doubting the benefits of a currently fictional alternative medicine is an unreasonable position to take.
I think opposing research into potential treatments and further understanding of any condition is an unreasonable position to take.
Alright Dr. Mengele.
Well, I hope someday you get funding for your passion project.
