Anne Frank didn’t die in a gas chamber. She was never in an extermination camp. She was at Auschwitz, not Auschwitz-Birkenau. She died in Bergen-Belsen, most likely from Typhus.
Anyway, you do realize they didn’t start off with gas chambers, right? You need incremental steps, making it worse little by little, because otherwise people won’t accept it. First it was the rhetoric, and the rhetoric got worse and worse. Taking away people’s rights. Taking over the newspapers to print whatever you want them to. Changing laws, removing laws, writing new laws. Violence in the streets to intimidate and persecute people, using his brownshirts. Imprisoning political opponents (socialists and communists were first, of course, because they resisted the hardest). Imprisoning anyone who went against the propaganda; journalists, scientists, artists, teachers, any and all intellectuals basically. Banning political parties except your own. Executing religious leaders that refused to kiss the ring. Anything and anyone that could possibly ever turn into a weapon against him, even his own people weren’t safe. But each step came after the previous, a 100 little steps that resulted in industrialized genocide. You can’t start at 100.
The extermination camps weren’t built until '41/'42 and mostly they did that because executing shitloads of people was very traumatizing for his own murder squads (Einsatzgruppen) and very time-consuming. It wasn’t efficient, it was bad for their mental health. They had already gassed people in smaller settings like hospitals, mentally and physically disabled people. They industrialized it, but it wasn’t what they advertised in the 30’ies. If Hitler had stood up during elections and said “hey guys, you know what would be cool? Let’s gas millions of people!” he never would have gotten to power. But once he had power… well, he could do whatever the fuck he wanted. His rabid supporters loved it, any and all actual resistance was already squashed, and anyone who didn’t love it had to pretend they did, because otherwise they’d be dragged off.
Even then, remember that the most votes the Nazis ever got was 39%. 39% too many, obviously, but they never had a majority. The only reason Hitler got absolute power in the first place is because the conservatives worked with him, thought they could control the Nazis, use them against the socialists and communists. They made him chancellor, and then Hindenburg died and Hitler made himself president as well. Of course by then there was nothing or nobody who could even try to stop him anymore. But yeah, the conservatives handed him power on a silver platter. Underestimated him. Sounds familiar, no?
Remember:
Nazis in the 30’ies hadn’t done yet what Nazis in the 40’ies ended up doing. They were still fucking Nazis.
Hitler wasn’t Hitler, until he was.
Edit: Also remember that extermination wasn’t even the goal at first. What they wanted was to get rid of the Jewish people, not necessarily kill them all. Jewish people could voluntarily leave, some were being deported to Poland and other places. Entire ships filled with Jewish people were sent to Cuba (where they were denied entry) and the US (where they were denied entry) and other places (often being denied entry and being forced to go back where they came from, only to still end up in concentration camps). They even had an ultimate deportation plan (the first Final Solution, I guess): The Madagascar Plan. They were going to deport all Jewish people to Madagascar. But when they couldn’t defeat the British and any invasion of GB was deemed impossible, they gave up on the plan.
We have already seen that camps with immigrants are apparently perfectly acceptable in the U.S. and now with the new shit being built in Texas… do you really think all these people are actually going to be deported? Or are they going to rot in camps while being used as slave labor? How many are going to die from horrific conditions? Americans actually voted for all this, Trump has never been shy about his intentions. And they still refuse to accept any Nazi-parallels. Just because people aren’t being gassed, doesn’t mean any comparison is false.
Edit 2: correction: I don’t actually know if any building has already started. But Texas has offered land to Trump for his Mass Deportation Facilities. Sources: here and here
I don’t have to, there are Nazis already in the white house. If you don’t want to open your eyes for once, see musk doing a Hitler salute and read some of the stuff he’s been saying about the great replacement conspiracy theory, jews, trans people etc. and not have the guts to call a duck a duck and admit you can finally see what we all saw coming like ~2015 that’s on you.
That is not correct and borders on historical denialism.
The german people was at least implicitly, if not acutely aware of the cruelties and ethnic, political and ableistic “cleansings” perpetrated by the Nazi government. Just a quick glance at wikipedia gives you this information.
Thats an exaggeration of what i said but i guess in context of historical denialism it is a fair nuance to also mention. In a way your own versions of events denies the gradual escalation of evil. They did not Start with gas chambers.
This is my point more nuanced.
The Anne Frank family had lived to trough systemic suppression.
They witnessed and experienced the racism and hatred.
Deportations happend out in the open
But that is pretty close to where we are today!
Jews did not hide out of fear of gas chambers but out of fear of deportation or arrest. Just like today.
Overtime it became an open secret that deportation was very likely death. But you are still surrounded by propaganda. The exact details and extend of the real cruelty where hidden.
Looking it up: the Frank family went into hiding in July 1942. In Oktober that year Anne describes in her diary a rumor on the radio about jews being gassed. They did not wait for that escalation to hide, they started before.
I appreciate you coming back and giving nuance to your comment, thank you for that.
If you describe facts, would you kindly provide sources of where you encountered them? That makes it a lot easier to have a facts-based discussion :)
October 9th 1942: “Today I have nothing but dismal and depressing news to report. Our many Jewish friends and acquaintances are being taken away in droves. The Gestapo is treating them very roughly and transporting them in cattle cars to Westerbork, the big camp in Drenthe to which they’re sending all the Jews. Miep told us about someone who’d managed to escape from there. It must be terrible in Westerbork. The people get almost nothing to eat, much less to drink, as water is available only one hour a day, and there’s only one toilet and sink for several thousand people. Men and women sleep in the same room, and women and children often have their heads shaved. Escape is almost impossible; many people look Jewish, and they’re branded by their shorn heads. If it’s that bad in Holland, what must it be like in those faraway and uncivilised places where the Germans are sending them? We assume that most of them are being murdered. The English radio says they’re being gassed. Perhaps that’s the quickest way to die. I feel terrible. Miep’s accounts of these horrors are so heartrending… Fine specimens of humanity, those Germans, and to think I’m actually one of them! No, that’s not true, Hitler took away our nationality long ago. And besides, there are no greater enemies on earth than the Germans and Jews.”
Comparing this situation to Anne Frank is a bit silly, nobody’s being dragged off to the gas chambers.
The writing is on the wall; too bad you appear to be dyslexic.
Anne Frank didn’t die in a gas chamber. She was never in an extermination camp. She was at Auschwitz, not Auschwitz-Birkenau. She died in Bergen-Belsen, most likely from Typhus.
Anyway, you do realize they didn’t start off with gas chambers, right? You need incremental steps, making it worse little by little, because otherwise people won’t accept it. First it was the rhetoric, and the rhetoric got worse and worse. Taking away people’s rights. Taking over the newspapers to print whatever you want them to. Changing laws, removing laws, writing new laws. Violence in the streets to intimidate and persecute people, using his brownshirts. Imprisoning political opponents (socialists and communists were first, of course, because they resisted the hardest). Imprisoning anyone who went against the propaganda; journalists, scientists, artists, teachers, any and all intellectuals basically. Banning political parties except your own. Executing religious leaders that refused to kiss the ring. Anything and anyone that could possibly ever turn into a weapon against him, even his own people weren’t safe. But each step came after the previous, a 100 little steps that resulted in industrialized genocide. You can’t start at 100.
The extermination camps weren’t built until '41/'42 and mostly they did that because executing shitloads of people was very traumatizing for his own murder squads (Einsatzgruppen) and very time-consuming. It wasn’t efficient, it was bad for their mental health. They had already gassed people in smaller settings like hospitals, mentally and physically disabled people. They industrialized it, but it wasn’t what they advertised in the 30’ies. If Hitler had stood up during elections and said “hey guys, you know what would be cool? Let’s gas millions of people!” he never would have gotten to power. But once he had power… well, he could do whatever the fuck he wanted. His rabid supporters loved it, any and all actual resistance was already squashed, and anyone who didn’t love it had to pretend they did, because otherwise they’d be dragged off.
Even then, remember that the most votes the Nazis ever got was 39%. 39% too many, obviously, but they never had a majority. The only reason Hitler got absolute power in the first place is because the conservatives worked with him, thought they could control the Nazis, use them against the socialists and communists. They made him chancellor, and then Hindenburg died and Hitler made himself president as well. Of course by then there was nothing or nobody who could even try to stop him anymore. But yeah, the conservatives handed him power on a silver platter. Underestimated him. Sounds familiar, no?
Remember: Nazis in the 30’ies hadn’t done yet what Nazis in the 40’ies ended up doing. They were still fucking Nazis.
Hitler wasn’t Hitler, until he was.
Edit: Also remember that extermination wasn’t even the goal at first. What they wanted was to get rid of the Jewish people, not necessarily kill them all. Jewish people could voluntarily leave, some were being deported to Poland and other places. Entire ships filled with Jewish people were sent to Cuba (where they were denied entry) and the US (where they were denied entry) and other places (often being denied entry and being forced to go back where they came from, only to still end up in concentration camps). They even had an ultimate deportation plan (the first Final Solution, I guess): The Madagascar Plan. They were going to deport all Jewish people to Madagascar. But when they couldn’t defeat the British and any invasion of GB was deemed impossible, they gave up on the plan.
We have already seen that camps with immigrants are apparently perfectly acceptable in the U.S. and now with the new shit being built in Texas… do you really think all these people are actually going to be deported? Or are they going to rot in camps while being used as slave labor? How many are going to die from horrific conditions? Americans actually voted for all this, Trump has never been shy about his intentions. And they still refuse to accept any Nazi-parallels. Just because people aren’t being gassed, doesn’t mean any comparison is false.
Edit 2: correction: I don’t actually know if any building has already started. But Texas has offered land to Trump for his Mass Deportation Facilities. Sources: here and here
Friendly reminder the SS didn’t start with gas chambers and didn’t openly advertise gas chambers.
Saying “you can’t compare a person to a Nazi until they’ve murdered their six millionth jew” is just defending Nazis.
You’ve fast forwarded about 10 years.
…yet.
And I don’t think this time it will be gas chambers. More like drone warfare a la Ukraine.
Sounds like something a Nazi would say.
Yet.
First they came for the Socialists, but I did not speak out…
You can speak up for someone without going straight to nazis.
Elon went straight to nazis the other day. Keep up.
Calling someone a Nazi used to be extreme and over the top. These people are literally Nazis, it’s not being hyperbolic anymore.
Sure, but what do you do when they’re actual Nazis? No one should have tried to stop the Nazis before they knew about the gas chambers I guess, right?
I don’t have to, there are Nazis already in the white house. If you don’t want to open your eyes for once, see musk doing a Hitler salute and read some of the stuff he’s been saying about the great replacement conspiracy theory, jews, trans people etc. and not have the guts to call a duck a duck and admit you can finally see what we all saw coming like ~2015 that’s on you.
No ordinary citizens knew the truth about the gasschambers, least of all the Frank family.
The propaganda named them “work-camps” which also sounds better then “prison”
Edit: cruelty is gradual, after they hid they heard “rumors” on the radio.
The actual thing they feared was deportation, which could be assumed to mean death but no one knew for sure.
That is not correct and borders on historical denialism.
The german people was at least implicitly, if not acutely aware of the cruelties and ethnic, political and ableistic “cleansings” perpetrated by the Nazi government. Just a quick glance at wikipedia gives you this information.
Thats an exaggeration of what i said but i guess in context of historical denialism it is a fair nuance to also mention. In a way your own versions of events denies the gradual escalation of evil. They did not Start with gas chambers.
This is my point more nuanced.
The Anne Frank family had lived to trough systemic suppression.
They witnessed and experienced the racism and hatred.
Deportations happend out in the open
But that is pretty close to where we are today!
Jews did not hide out of fear of gas chambers but out of fear of deportation or arrest. Just like today.
Overtime it became an open secret that deportation was very likely death. But you are still surrounded by propaganda. The exact details and extend of the real cruelty where hidden.
Looking it up: the Frank family went into hiding in July 1942. In Oktober that year Anne describes in her diary a rumor on the radio about jews being gassed. They did not wait for that escalation to hide, they started before.
I appreciate you coming back and giving nuance to your comment, thank you for that.
If you describe facts, would you kindly provide sources of where you encountered them? That makes it a lot easier to have a facts-based discussion :)
My source is actually slightly complex and non English but the actual source my source has it from is the actually diary.
The full extract can be found here:
https://alphahistory.com/holocaust/anne-frank-diary-1942-44/
October 9th 1942: “Today I have nothing but dismal and depressing news to report. Our many Jewish friends and acquaintances are being taken away in droves. The Gestapo is treating them very roughly and transporting them in cattle cars to Westerbork, the big camp in Drenthe to which they’re sending all the Jews. Miep told us about someone who’d managed to escape from there. It must be terrible in Westerbork. The people get almost nothing to eat, much less to drink, as water is available only one hour a day, and there’s only one toilet and sink for several thousand people. Men and women sleep in the same room, and women and children often have their heads shaved. Escape is almost impossible; many people look Jewish, and they’re branded by their shorn heads. If it’s that bad in Holland, what must it be like in those faraway and uncivilised places where the Germans are sending them? We assume that most of them are being murdered. The English radio says they’re being gassed. Perhaps that’s the quickest way to die. I feel terrible. Miep’s accounts of these horrors are so heartrending… Fine specimens of humanity, those Germans, and to think I’m actually one of them! No, that’s not true, Hitler took away our nationality long ago. And besides, there are no greater enemies on earth than the Germans and Jews.”
Nice, thank you!
Removed by mod
For now…