• تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
    476·
    9 months ago

    China doesn’t have Christian Zionists who hate Muslims and relish in their misery. China might actually be a better partner for peace in the Middle East, they already proved that by brokering peace between Saudi Arabia and Iran to the US’s objection.

    • ArachnidMania@lemm.ee
      922·
      9 months ago

      Bruh, they don’t need zionists when they can, themselves, be super xenophobic by themselves. Their treatment of Uyghurs does not inspire confidence that any actions made won’t be in benevolence to the suppressed.

      • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
        256·
        9 months ago

        Why is the Organization of Islamic Cooperation and most Turkic and Muslim countries don’t think there is an Uyghur genocide? Why is it only western countries with rampant Sinophobia and their governments slaughtering Muslims under the guise of fighting terrorism that seem to be concerned?

        Would you believe a Klansman that claims that it is the Navajo who are actually the real racists and they are concerned for the safety of minorities? Western governments are the Klansman here.

        It is wild seeing westerners who unabashedly hate China and Muslims pretend to be concerned. Why would Muslims speak out about all the massacres and genocides except the one the west cares about? Are we supposed to believe that Muslims are afraid of China but not the US?

        • ArachnidMania@lemm.ee
          720·
          9 months ago

          There is little argument other than whataboutism and ‘I have a black friend’ here. I am aware it’s not a popular view on lemmy.ml, but these multiple things can be true. Western countries can totally be anti Chinese, other Muslim countries can totally be racist to other Muslim’s of the ‘wrong race’ just as much as a Christian. It does not change what is occurring in the xinjiang region. An individual can assess the actions and history of an organization without being themselves group into another organization they may or may not belong or support.

          • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
            186·
            9 months ago

            Uyghur are Turkic and there are many Turkic countries the most significant is Turkiye. You are clearly clueless. You would rather believe that Turkic and Muslim peoples are racist to the Uyghurs rather than accept you have been misled.

            So Muslims are not racist to Palestinians, Rohingya, Kashmiris, Chechens, Afghans, Bosnians, etc… but only to the Uyghurs. It is far simpler to accept and believe that westerners just want to pit Muslims against Chinese. Westerners kill us and displace us by the millions, but we should fear China?

            • Urist@lemmy.mlEnglish
              101·
              9 months ago

              To be fair, the military junta in Egypt are cooperating heavily with Israel in it’s genocidal efforts due to geopolitical reasons.

  • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
    241·
    9 months ago

    Everyone, please be civil. I understand that tensions are high, but please refrain from personal attacks.

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
    2411·
    9 months ago

    Wait, could China actually do something good? USA media has conditioned me to believe that they are only bad. This does not compute! /s

    • trevor@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      176·
      9 months ago

      Broken clock 🤷 It helps when the US is committed to doing the wrong the at basically every step with Israel.

    • mihies@kbin.social
      242·
      9 months ago

      Who can tell them though? US, which is actively enabling genocide not to mention other atrocities it made all over the world?

    • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
      184·
      9 months ago

      The Organization of Islamic Cooperation and most Turkic and Muslim countries don’t think there is an Uyghur genocide. So let’s focus on the one that’s actually real and everyone -except Western regimes- acknowledge it is happening.

      Fun fact: If you tried googling the OIC report on Uyghur I linked here, you will only get results for western outlets condemning it. It is clear who is using censorship to control the narrative https://www.google.com/search?q=oic+uyghur+report

    • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
      3122·
      9 months ago

      Bruh the fucking US State department admits there’s no such thing

      The only countries accusing China of mishandling the ETIM in Xinjiang are its geopolitical rivals in the west. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this.

      35+ mostly muslim UN states have approved of how China handled this after sending delegates and diplomats to Xinjiang:

      …separatism and religious extremism has caused enormous damage to people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, which has seriously infringed upon human rights, including right to life, health and development. Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers. Now safety and security has returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there are safeguarded. The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security. We note with appreciation that human rights are respected and protected in China in the process of counter-terrorism and deradicalization.

      We appreciate China’s commitment to openness and transparency. China has invited a number of diplomats, international organizations officials and journalist to Xinjiang to witness the progress of the human rights cause and the outcomes of counter-terrorism and deradicalization there. What they saw and heard in Xinjiang completely contradicted what was reported in the media. We call on relevant countries to refrain from employing unfounded charges against China based on unconfirmed information before they visit Xinjiang.

      And as another user said, this is a great video about Xinjiang with sources in the description.

      Also you can literally just visit Xinjiang and see it for yourself. There’s no restrictions on travel now that covid is mostly over there. There’s tons of videos on YouTube doing just that.

        • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
          142·
          9 months ago

          It’s the fucking US state department lmao of course they’re gonna say whatever bs they can. The point is that even they stopped short.

          What they have done in Xinjiang after ETIM’s attacks is built vocational training centres, infrastructure, and started integrating it better into the rest of China’s economy, i.e the core material reasons why someone would have to resort to extremism in the first place. Which is a far better response than other countries and has been successful, hence the muslim and global south countries approving of it.

          • ArachnidMania@lemm.ee
            15·
            9 months ago

            Sounds exactly like Canada’s residential schools. Which is considered an attempt at genocide

            • filoria@lemmy.ml
              52·
              9 months ago

              Canada’s residential schools were forced on an entire population. By most estimates, the proportion of Uyghurs in these “camps” is similar to the proportion of Black people in prison in America. Is America conducting crimes against humanity or a genocide on Black people? Ok, maybe.

          • deafboy@lemmy.world
            29·
            9 months ago

            What a strange way to say “kidnaping children and sending their parents to concentration camps”.

            • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
              92·
              9 months ago

              Projection. Ig it’s hard for the western mind to imagine a government tackling the material reasons for a problem instead of just harming people.

        • sibachian@lemmy.mlEnglish
          124·
          9 months ago

          frankly, the US is STILL fighting in the middle east after 9/11. the chinese has shown more restraint and milder treatment towards their local terrorist group. so i’d say they’ve handled it better than the west ever could.

          • deft@lemmy.wtf
            311·
            9 months ago

            Lol irrelevant.

            China’s treatment of these people is indefensible. Defending it in any regard just leaves you wrong my dude.

            Look at all the people being clowns trying to declare nothing is happening because “official genocide” hasn’t been committed

            They still don’t call Gaza genocide. Why the fuck are you listening to them about it at all??? lol

        • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
          114·
          9 months ago

          I live in China and

          How about we say you’re also from Xinjiang while we’re at it?

          • explodicle@local106.comEnglish
            5·
            9 months ago

            [Sorry for a tangent]

            Don’t we expect to have an increasing number of Chinese people on Lemmy? It’s not controlled by any western government, and they’re ~20% of all people.

            • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
              91·
              9 months ago

              True. Just found it extremely unlikely cuz every Chinese person I’ve interacted with deny western media’s claims. And their claim about it being difficult to travel Xinjiang is just wrong after all; same “restrictions” as any other place in China or most other countries.

        • nekandro@lemmy.ml
          164·
          9 months ago

          And the people opposing China are universally tied to the US through either NATO, Five Eyes, or US military occupation (Japan, South Korea).

          Are you one of those people who think only white people matter?

        • Arelin@lemmy.zip
          111·
          9 months ago

          Imagine being so fucking racist jesus christ.

          “The opinions of the nations we’ve been colonizing and committing genocide on for hundreds of years don’t matter. Only that of the nations that are currently supporting a genocide in Gaza do.”

      • felixwhynot@lemmy.world
        913·
        9 months ago

        The first paragraph of the first link you shared:

        The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide

        So basically you’re saying “don’t worry they’re just doing crimes against humanity but not technically genocide.” Not a great argument IMHO

        • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
          135·
          9 months ago

          Right below this comment

          It’s the fucking US state department lmao of course they’re gonna say whatever bs they can. The point is that even they stopped short.

          What they have done in Xinjiang after ETIM’s attacks is built vocational training centres, infrastructure, and started integrating it better into the rest of China’s economy, i.e the core material reasons why someone would have to resort to extremism in the first place. Which is a far better response than other countries and has been successful, hence the muslim and global south countries approving of it.

          • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
            15·
            9 months ago

            The difference between your average liberal and a tankie is that liberals will openly say that there were no WMDs in Iraq and that the invasion was a mistake.

            But liberals will still fall in line and support the current war as they always do, only after the fact they reasses their position.

            Find a tankie that would ever actually criticize the CCP the same way.

            I didn’t know the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation were a tankie group. Does that mean all Muslims are tankies?

            • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
              610·
              9 months ago

              The Iraq War inspired mass protests immediately that set records in several American cities, but sure.

              You are correct though that the narrative has shifted with time. So I take it that this has also happened in China, such that someone could organize a protest on the Tiananmen anniversary, right?

                • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
                  49·
                  9 months ago

                  I mean, yes, Bush lied to the American public. This is not particularly controversial.

                  And given that the original point was the difference between the ability and willingness of liberals to criticize our own governments relative to tankies, Tiananmen is a perfectly relevant topic, though I’m hardly surprised that you’d clearly like to avoid it. And if randomly bringing up supposedly unrelated topics is something to avoid, might I ask why you brought up WMDs in Iraq in a thread about the Uyghers in the first place?

      • OtakuAltair@lemmy.world
        164·
        9 months ago

        This isn’t reddit. There’s no corporation here to censor anything that challenges western propaganda.

      • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
        75·
        9 months ago

        The biggest problem is the number likely being exaggerated.

        The real amount of Uyghurs in concentration camps is completely unknown but guestimated around 30.000 to 100.000.

        The 1 million number is by a single source called Radio Free Asia which does not offer any evidence.

        The American way to spread propaganda is to take something that is true, and then heavily exaggerate it without providing evidence for the most extreme claims.

        A good video on the Uyghur Genocide here

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
      2240·
      9 months ago

      I’ve great news for you then, because China never started genociding the Uyghur people.

      As part of the new Cold War, the US organized and funded terrorists for the purposes of destabilizing the Xinjiang region of China. And after those destabilization efforts failed, CIA cut-out NGOs like the World Uyghur Congress spun the fable of the “Uyghur genocide,” again as part of the new Cold War with China. The US wants to balkanize the country or ideally regime-change it entirely.

      The blueprint of regime change operations

      We see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.

      Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.

      The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.

      Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.

      Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).

      Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.

      • felixwhynot@lemmy.world
        2015·
        9 months ago

        In addition to the arbitrary detention of Uyghurs in state-sponsored camps, government policies have included forced labor,[5][6] suppression of Uyghur religious practices,[7] political indoctrination,[8] forced sterilization,[9] forced contraception,[10][11] and forced abortion.[12][13]

        Sure, nothing to see here /s

      • Skeezix@lemmy.world
        312·
        9 months ago

        Why is it that you say these falsehoods here in this forum but on the other social media you complain about the Chinese state and you push for democracy in China? Where are the photographs that you said you have of the Tiananmen Square massacre?