Unless you are a child survivor of sexual abuse at the hands of the ultra wealthy, you and I are not the we in this story. The survivors are, and I believe the point being made was that nobody who is obsessed with the Epstein list is 1/10th as concerned with making sure the survivors have what they need to recover and thrive to whatever extent is possible.
We is this whole society where powerful people can do whatever they want. Of course we, society, care about the victims. We, society, want powerful people held to account SO IT STOPS FUCKING HAPPENING. Get out of here with this bullshit acting like trying to hold powerful people accountable for their crimes is somehow unvirtuous.
I have bad news for you: you will never be able to arrest your way out of child rape and it’s not only the ultra wealthy that do it. And making angry comments on the internet at people pointing out that the victims need to be acknowledged in this is not trying to “hold powerful people to account for their crimes.”
You should ask yourself what makes you so mad about centering victims even 1/10th as much as centering punishing pedos, because that was the bar I set. Not half as much, not a third as much, not to the exclusion of talking about punishment at all.
I get your point, but I guess since the pedo rape orgies are most likely still ongoing, your daughter could be kidnapped and end up in a room with Trump, so to a degree, we are in it.
Um, I think the leadership of a dangerous, somewhat unpredictable, and very globally connected country being either pedophiles or pedophile supporters does impact everyone, even me as a dude in Canada. I do want the victims to be taken care of, and part of that involves proving, beyond all doubt, that they were hurt and showing not just them but everyone that we’re not going to let the people who hurt them get away with it. I’m so fucking over rich people paying bogus settlements and getting to continue on living the high life and abusing people. I want to see them face real consequences.
Absolutely we’re all the “we” in the story. For different reasons and to different degrees but this involves all of us.
Um… Holding the people who raped children accountable for raping children is caring about the children who were raped.
And going after the most powerful people involved sends a very strong message to everyone else that no one is above consequences, which is caring about preventing future child rapes.
You’re not wrong, but I do understand where they’re coming from. The actual victims always seem like an after thought, if they’re mentioned at all. It’s almost like they’re an abstract concept at this point.
But what more is there to say about them? We don’t want to identify them, and we already know they were the victims of a horrible crime. They are an abstract concept in part to protect their identities.
Rich and powerful men can do whatever they please in this country and nobody cares about that
In my experience, the people who care the deepest are the ones who see themselves as victims (or targets) while the people who care the least / openly advocate for the thing are the ones who see themselves as the perpetrators. When you’re living in a Capitalist Dystopia, in which human trafficking is fully normalized and accepted as a Market Efficiency, the predators have the weight of government behind them.
But also, there’s a strong whiff of the anti-abortion types behind the “Save The Children” rhetoric. Like, you’re not saving the children, you’re saving their virginity which is rightfully owned by their parents. Pedophilia becomes a crime against the Fathers and Betrothed Husbands. This isn’t a crime against people, it’s a crime against a very valuable collectable, which the Libertarians and Theocrats consider a greater sin.
Yes, the right will allow their people to get away with a whole lot if it means they get to “win”. The left does not operate that way, even the fuckwit centrists don’t pull that shit every time.
And excuse me but the reason I want these people to face serious consequences is because they committed a serious crime and hurt people. Literally the fact that people were harmed so badly is the entire point!
Your comment would carry a lot more weight if it made any fucking sense. The only way it does is if you pretend as though the near entirety of the left doesn’t exist and as though that group does the same cult bullshit the right does, for which there really isn’t much evidence at all beyond a LOT of people being mad that the person they need to vote for is often a pretty pathetic alternative to the insane fascist that the conservatives keep propping up.
Christ, we can do two things at the same time. We can take care of the victims AND persecute the criminals. One is a MUCH bigger challenge than the other and so obviously we’re more focused on that. Fucking D’UH.
Not everyone, no. The victim’s pain and tribulation in years following is at the root of why so many people despise rapists, especially child rapists. It’s the absolute worst thing among the laundry list of crimes committed against minors every year, just short of murder. The incident(s) in question, and the fallout are a phenomenon widely recognized for the long-lasting damage done to them and their families, both present and future. Aside from the actual psychological impact of the crime, there’s the very well recognized classically-embedded realization that when someone too small/sexually immature is coerced into/forced to have sex, the act itself, and the pregnancy which follows can be virtual death sentences. Any grown woman who’s given birth to a 9-10+ lbs. baby/twins/triplets/quadruplets can tell you, it’s exhausting and excruciating if not downright hazardous in the wrong circumstances - those found in a pregnant Mother-to-be who’s shorter than 5’ and weighing less than 100 lbs., as nearly all minor girls are.
People do realize IMO, that’s the heart of the issue. That’s the source of the outrage beyond rich assholes taking advantage of, and injuring young girls.
*spoilered for possibly distressing content, sensitive readers’ discretion advised
People love celebrity gossip and the victims are mostly nameless.
More than that, though: I think we all feel bad for those nameless victims, and all the numberless, nameless victims of not-famous abusers. I think the public is so frustrated at the apparent inability to hold anyone accountable, that they will latch on to any glimmer of potential accountability. I mean, To Catch A Predator ran for 3 seasons just trolling random dudes on the internet.
I just want to add that it’s probably best for the victims that they remain nameless. They don’t need to be known or recognized for their terrible experience or repeatedly and unexpectedly reminded of it, even by people who only mean well. And especially by perverts who don’t.
My frustration with the Epstein list is that nobody seems to give a damn that girls were raped, only which powerful men can held to “account”.
Rich and powerful men can do whatever they please in this country and nobody cares about that, or who they hurt, only the political outcome matters.
We care that they are held to account, because it would be the first time. We are tired of it.
Unless you are a child survivor of sexual abuse at the hands of the ultra wealthy, you and I are not the we in this story. The survivors are, and I believe the point being made was that nobody who is obsessed with the Epstein list is 1/10th as concerned with making sure the survivors have what they need to recover and thrive to whatever extent is possible.
We is this whole society where powerful people can do whatever they want. Of course we, society, care about the victims. We, society, want powerful people held to account SO IT STOPS FUCKING HAPPENING. Get out of here with this bullshit acting like trying to hold powerful people accountable for their crimes is somehow unvirtuous.
I have bad news for you: you will never be able to arrest your way out of child rape and it’s not only the ultra wealthy that do it. And making angry comments on the internet at people pointing out that the victims need to be acknowledged in this is not trying to “hold powerful people to account for their crimes.”
You should ask yourself what makes you so mad about centering victims even 1/10th as much as centering punishing pedos, because that was the bar I set. Not half as much, not a third as much, not to the exclusion of talking about punishment at all.
This isn’t something people usually want attention for. Let’s not punish the victims even more.
You are completely full of shit and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I get your point, but I guess since the pedo rape orgies are most likely still ongoing, your daughter could be kidnapped and end up in a room with Trump, so to a degree, we are in it.
Um, I think the leadership of a dangerous, somewhat unpredictable, and very globally connected country being either pedophiles or pedophile supporters does impact everyone, even me as a dude in Canada. I do want the victims to be taken care of, and part of that involves proving, beyond all doubt, that they were hurt and showing not just them but everyone that we’re not going to let the people who hurt them get away with it. I’m so fucking over rich people paying bogus settlements and getting to continue on living the high life and abusing people. I want to see them face real consequences.
Absolutely we’re all the “we” in the story. For different reasons and to different degrees but this involves all of us.
Um… Holding the people who raped children accountable for raping children is caring about the children who were raped.
And going after the most powerful people involved sends a very strong message to everyone else that no one is above consequences, which is caring about preventing future child rapes.
You’re not wrong, but I do understand where they’re coming from. The actual victims always seem like an after thought, if they’re mentioned at all. It’s almost like they’re an abstract concept at this point.
But what more is there to say about them? We don’t want to identify them, and we already know they were the victims of a horrible crime. They are an abstract concept in part to protect their identities.
It’s not about saying anything. It’s just clear that most of the people up in arms about the files could not care less about the victims.
How is it clear? What more do you want people to do?
People care about the girls. They also care about the corruption. Turns out you have to get through one to get to the other.
In my experience, the people who care the deepest are the ones who see themselves as victims (or targets) while the people who care the least / openly advocate for the thing are the ones who see themselves as the perpetrators. When you’re living in a Capitalist Dystopia, in which human trafficking is fully normalized and accepted as a Market Efficiency, the predators have the weight of government behind them.
But also, there’s a strong whiff of the anti-abortion types behind the “Save The Children” rhetoric. Like, you’re not saving the children, you’re saving their virginity which is rightfully owned by their parents. Pedophilia becomes a crime against the Fathers and Betrothed Husbands. This isn’t a crime against people, it’s a crime against a very valuable collectable, which the Libertarians and Theocrats consider a greater sin.
As horrific as it is, you’re completely correct. This is the dirty little open secret of patriarchy
Thank you for pointing this out. There’s a bizarre American obsession with owning your child’s virginity
Yes, the right will allow their people to get away with a whole lot if it means they get to “win”. The left does not operate that way, even the fuckwit centrists don’t pull that shit every time.
And excuse me but the reason I want these people to face serious consequences is because they committed a serious crime and hurt people. Literally the fact that people were harmed so badly is the entire point!
Your comment would carry a lot more weight if it made any fucking sense. The only way it does is if you pretend as though the near entirety of the left doesn’t exist and as though that group does the same cult bullshit the right does, for which there really isn’t much evidence at all beyond a LOT of people being mad that the person they need to vote for is often a pretty pathetic alternative to the insane fascist that the conservatives keep propping up.
Christ, we can do two things at the same time. We can take care of the victims AND persecute the criminals. One is a MUCH bigger challenge than the other and so obviously we’re more focused on that. Fucking D’UH.
spoiler
Not everyone, no. The victim’s pain and tribulation in years following is at the root of why so many people despise rapists, especially child rapists. It’s the absolute worst thing among the laundry list of crimes committed against minors every year, just short of murder. The incident(s) in question, and the fallout are a phenomenon widely recognized for the long-lasting damage done to them and their families, both present and future. Aside from the actual psychological impact of the crime, there’s the very well recognized classically-embedded realization that when someone too small/sexually immature is coerced into/forced to have sex, the act itself, and the pregnancy which follows can be virtual death sentences. Any grown woman who’s given birth to a 9-10+ lbs. baby/twins/triplets/quadruplets can tell you, it’s exhausting and excruciating if not downright hazardous in the wrong circumstances - those found in a pregnant Mother-to-be who’s shorter than 5’ and weighing less than 100 lbs., as nearly all minor girls are.
People do realize IMO, that’s the heart of the issue. That’s the source of the outrage beyond rich assholes taking advantage of, and injuring young girls.
*spoilered for possibly distressing content, sensitive readers’ discretion advised
People love celebrity gossip and the victims are mostly nameless.
More than that, though: I think we all feel bad for those nameless victims, and all the numberless, nameless victims of not-famous abusers. I think the public is so frustrated at the apparent inability to hold anyone accountable, that they will latch on to any glimmer of potential accountability. I mean, To Catch A Predator ran for 3 seasons just trolling random dudes on the internet.
I just want to add that it’s probably best for the victims that they remain nameless. They don’t need to be known or recognized for their terrible experience or repeatedly and unexpectedly reminded of it, even by people who only mean well. And especially by perverts who don’t.
The books with his name are a red herring Jeffrey Epstein was not a dumb man, that entire house was undoubtedly wired for video through hidden cameras
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