What does Netflix have to do with it? They still kill your favorite shows, and overcharge with ads. The first two words were not necessary in this headline.
This behaviour needs to die.
It’s not reasonable for companies to charge subscriptions to hardware that you own that require zero external connections.
The engine is not a connected component. There is zero reason it would ever be constrained by connected features.
You forgot this little point.
You own a non-exclusive, intransferable licence to use and operate said car.
Yes, you paid for it. But it’s not really yours. You own its body. Someone else still owns its spirit. And they want a rent for you to be able to touch the spirit.
Why would they do that?
Obviously, becaude that shit flies. Why not do it? Money is money. And companies exist for it. Fuck morality. Fuck common sense. They only care about the little green lines.
Customer satisfaction?
Not even an afterthought.
In a sane world, everyone would think like you. I do, for one.
The problem is everyone else who doesn’t. They’ll put up with it, accept the thinly-veiled excuses, and the company will see "wow, we can do that now? Gee, these people are stoopid. Let’s see how far we can take it.
Honestly, I see where they’re coming from. Not that I support it. But it is a rational decision on their part.
In a sane world, the smart employee who came up with this would be fired promptly, because if the company were to carry this shit out, they’d get so much bad press it’d take over a decade to recover.
But alas, we don’t live in a sane world and clearly enough consumers are either idiots or ignorant for this shit to fly.
I hate it so much. It’s absolutely crazy how companies can be so anti consumer and get away with it because they market it well. Still can’t have a decent group chat if someone’s on an Apple device. That new car tracks you and sells the info, now you need to pay to unlock it’s full potential. The new os is always online and shares your info non-stop, it’ll continue to push it’s privacy invading AI until you give up. You don’t actually own that game you bought, it’s a license and we can revoke it because fuck you.
I’m so fucking tired of being the weirdo because I stand by my morals and won’t let them get away with fucking me over.
Did you know that actually happens with jet engines for a long time now? Companies lease jet engines and they have licenses for a certain number of engines in different max outputs, they can even transfer between them like, one 100% engine got damaged so they they transfer the 100% license to an 80% engine while it is in maintenence (all numbers are made up but the idea is the same).
But yeah, shit is fucked.
Even the transmissions in school buses have worked this way for more than two decades now. The Allison 2500-series is built with 6 gears (plus one reverse) but usually 6th gear is disabled in the software as users buy the 5-gear variant. The 6-gear variant is more expensive and 5-gear buyers can upgrade to that down the road if they want to - or you can crack it with widely-available software, something that many people in the skoolie community take advantage of.
At least 6th gear isn’t a subscription service … yet.
Considering that the purpose of that 6th gear would be to lower the fuel consumption, that means we have a bunch of buses running around burning more fuel and polluting more all in the name of more profits.
At least school buses spend a lot of time driving around at relatively low speeds so the lack of the extra gear probably has little real-world effect for most of the time, but still…
we have a bunch of buses running around burning more fuel and polluting more
An even worse factor is that EPA regulations governing diesel engine emissions specify allowed emissions in terms of horsepower-miles, which means that more powerful engines are allowed to emit more pollutants per mile. This has led to school buses becoming over-engined compared to what they used to be a few decades ago (in the '90s bus engines in the neighborhood of 200 hp were typical, now 350 hp is normal). This is good for lead-footed bus drivers and the people behind the buses (I guess), but not so good for the air. And of course EPA diesel regulations specify nothing about greenhouse gas emissions.
At least school buses have the intrinsic efficiencies of mass-transportation behind them. If parents were driving all these kids to school instead, the net emissions would be vastly worse. Of course most of these kids could walk or bicycle instead …
That kind of makes sense in context, since for leasing it’s not their hardware and they’re probably doing accounting based on the amortized costs of using them
But no I did not know that and it is pretty cool
I think it should be a cryptocurrency micro-transaction model, skip to the end stage and get it over with. You buy 100 Volkscoins, each minute over 200hp costs 10 VC. Each minute over 0hp costs 1 VC so be sure to keep a large balance unless you want to be stranded. Turbo boost economy mode costs 35 Volksmini, e.g. 40 Volksmini = 1 Volkscoin. But every other Tuesday you can buy a Volksmega (999 VC) for 30% off, isn’t that generous?
Volkscoin is such a cursed word it made me shudder.
“We have three tiers: VolksFan, VolksMan, and VolksFührer…”
So I’m carrying around extra weight I don’t need if I don’t want the extra horse power?
Same man, same. Weight loss is hard.
It’s always been like this
Cardio
So a software hack could unleash the extra power?
This has been true for decades with VW and other cars… I had my 2000 Jetta chipped and got all kinds of HP and torque. Some dude just plugged in a laptop, beep boop, vroom vroom. $600 please.
This just seems like VW cutting out those middlemen.
That’s tuning, and that’s different. There’s tradeoffs with tuning besides the obvious more wear.
In many cases there’s no extra wear. I paid $800 for a Ford ecu update that improves engine output but also retains any warranty.
I bet this has more to do with emissions.
In many cases there’s no extra wear
You can’t change physics. More HP = more torque = more wear on the whole drive train. Also more boost = more stress on the turbo = it will fail sooner.
Also, back then, cars with the higher specced variant of the “same” engine almost always had mechanical upgrades compared to the lower specced engine: usually bigger brakes, a stronger clutch, and various other drive train components.
So while in many cases you could chip your car without much immediate harm, you were definitely cutting into various safety margins determined by automotive engineers who know much better than you and me.
You have a misunderstanding of physics.
The id3 is electric though
Greedy.
Nah, some came with a little controller and you could change settings on the fly. The immediate benefit is better fuel economy on almost any mode. All it does is mess with the ecu within its limits. Doesn’t affect warranty and doesn’t cause any more wear.
I know GM and Toyota like to squirrel away a little extra fuel economy and a few extra HP because they don’t think you deserve it.
They will probably just switch ECU maps when you pay their subscription, or they’ll have a similar way to perform the same function. Using the accelerator more creates more wear too.
Its the same IMO, but instead of a go faster switch in the car, its remote controlled.
Nope. With tuning you can bypass the safety limits as well. You can easily tune the car to be unsafe or suffer extreme wear.
You can damage a car with bad tuning but that’s not what he’s saying. I think the manufacturer will create an ECU map that delivers safe power, and then they will create a map with less power and then deliver the car with the underperforming map. Then, when you pay, they change to the map with higher performance.
And I’m saying “you can have software A or software B(and only those choices - both approved by the manufacturer)”, is not the same as tuning each individual setting and the freedom you have in doing so. Call it what it is, an alternate approved ECU map. Calling it a “tune” is giving them WAY too much credit and overshadows the main point: lack of control. This doesn’t give you control, it takes away and charges you for the privilege.
People mentioning classic tuning are glossing over the fact that you typically also change parts to accommodate the new tune and the new limits you are pushing. This “new tune” doesn’t do anything but allow the vehicle to do what it always could but was handicapped in software to charge you more for.
Stop bootlicking and call this scam what it is.
You’re telling me to stop bootlicking? I just didn’t like the way I interpreted your characterization of ECU tuning.
The major tradeoff being that environmental regulations being unhappy.
You probably made 10 times the EPA limit of NOx emissions though.
Funny enough, VW also got in a TON of trouble over (factory configuration) diesel cars cheating emissions testing.
I dont know if yours was a diesel, but those especially are known for being capable of remarkable power and fuel economy at the same time… IF you don’t care about emissions!
It still passed emission tests. The 1.8T engine (also common in Audis) was super tunable.
A long time ago my '76 VW Rabbit passed its emissions test in New Mexico. Granted, this was because the mechanic stuck the sensor up the tailpipe of his own car, but it was an impressive accomplishment nonetheless.
If I could just train the cat to piss directly in the DEF tank so I wouldn’t have to refill the thing
Increased hp and torque while reducing efficiency. Good job.
A lot of dailyable tunes actually make the car more efficient, not less. Engine wear, and knock are the limiting factors.
I’m sure it’s already being developed. Those guys don’t fuck around
nobody is going to take my ponies away from me
JFC, what on earth am I going to do if I need to buy a car in 20 years?
Wait, no, that doesn’t make sense either. What about the used car market? This is untenable. Hacks must emerge.
For a lot of this type of stuff, the “lifetime subscription” is applies to the owner, not the vehicle. So when the vehicle is resold, the subscription doesn’t transfer and the new owner has to buy it again (or do without). At least Volkswagon claims that this will go with the vehicle unlike companies like Tesla, but we’ll see.
Eventually, the manufacturer will stop supporting subscriptions on older cars. This could either because the money they bring in isn’t worth the cost of continuing to support a dwindling number of older cars, some technical limitation, or an intentional decision to cut off older cars with the hope it will push people to buy a new car.
Considering cars are expected to last 15-20 years, I’m guessing that these vehicles will not age well.
What about the used car market?
“Please purchase a public road pass for multiplayer access”
They already do this, it’s called tolls
Here’s an interesting graphic: https://fiets.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/cost_of_commute-1024x713.jpg
It states that for every dollar you pay to drive your car, society pays 9.20$. Implications being that if driving a car wasn’t subsidized, the costs would be 10 times as big.
Yeah but VW needs it’s share too. Stop being so greedy!
License, registration, insurance… plenty of fees before you get to pull a car into traffic.
Hacks are an inevitability for any product with a computer in it.
John Deere? Is that you?
Oh shit the DLC virus has spread
I eagerly await cars that require subscriptions for air conditioning, sound system access, etc.
Already happening. That shit should be outlawed a.s.a.p.
Won’t happen soon. Most of the people that can outlaw this don’t even drive their own cars.
Then again, it’s german corporate software…there should be a hack for that in no time 🤡
In France, VW cars are usually bought by our local rednecks. I would be curious to know who buys those cars in other countries.
I have a VW ID.4.
In NZ they have no internet connection, no subscriptions, basic driver assist features, made in Europe, not made by Tesla, and are (were?) as cheap as BYDs, MGs, and Model3s.
I love VW Golf.
My Mercedes has subscriptions for things like locking your car from the app or locating it 😂.
At least that has SOME justification since there’s a cellular connection and servers involved
I loathe the idea of a subscription, but you buy a car upfront knowing what specs you’re getting.
If they want to unlock more power for a one time fee, that’s fair game. It actually does have a cost incurred on them via increased wear and tear and warranty claims.
But it’s gotta be a 1 time purchase and is lifetime of the car.
Also tough luck if you failed to secure it properly and someone jailbreaks it. It’s their car they can do whatever the fuck they want to it.
It actually does have a cost incurred on them via increased wear and tear and warranty claims.
The customer friendly way to deal with this would be put in a limiter, and write in the contract “Warranty void if limiter removed”.
Not sure how well that would stand up in court as they can only void things if they can prove the alterations broke it.
So if you remove it and the warranty is 4 years 50k km, and it dies after 1 year, early wear and tear doesn’t seem likely. But maybe closer to the 50k they could claim it somehow? Or maybe it’d work, I dunno. Just doesn’t seem so clear cut.
Insurance and taxes declarations are going to be fun! Either you’ll have to pay for the actual power of the engine (that you don’t actually use), or you’ll need to modify the documents after unlocking the feature.
What happens when you sell the car? Does it go back to factory features?
In older Tesla Model 3s if you sold it back to Tesla they’d revert it, but if you sold it private it wouldn’t be reverted.
What happens when you sell the car? Does it go back to factory features?
I already said - But it’s gotta be a 1 time purchase and is lifetime of the car.
or you’ll need to modify the documents after unlocking the feature.
Usually when you unlock something it increases the value of the vehicle, and you need to let insurance know or the extra value won’t be covered. This is already pretty normal in any kind of insurance if there’s a change that can be considered material. If you don’t let them know, they won’t cover the cost of the altered/new item.
I don’t think I know anyone with a VW made after 2013, I guess that’s not going to change anytime soon now
Plenty of people with new Porsches and Audis
